[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Wouldn't this be a better fit, given the reticence by the ACO to acknowledge SCG and their not-so-subtle disappointment with hypercar so far:

But the credit still goes to canaglia for the idea in the first place.

The ACO HAS thanked us for entering. We are part of the technical committee.
We are finalising our our official Homologation submission based on some nice recent developments regarding our ICE engines. We are in discussion with several current entrants about sharing our Hybrid system and other development as well as possibly having customers buying and running our cars alongside of us. We hope Aston's recent stock market performance won't affect their joining us and Toyota in 2020/2021. We're not impressed with their flip statement that all they have to do to the Valkyrie to get it ready is to "detune it". As my friend Mark said: "When the flag drops the bullshit stops."

https://www.motor1.com/news/364448/g...WxVWX8nhIu3KCk

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Napolis

We are finalising our our official Homologation submission based on some nice recent developments regarding our ICE engines.

https://www.motor1.com/news/364448/g...WxVWX8nhIu3KCk

Alfa 2.9 V6 turbo?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Napolis

The ACO HAS thanked us for entering. We are part of the technical committee.
We are finalising our our official Homologation submission based on some nice recent developments regarding our ICE engines. We are in discussion with several current entrants about sharing our Hybrid system and other development as well as possibly having customers buying and running our cars alongside of us. We hope Aston's recent stock market performance won't affect their joining us and Toyota in 2020/2021. We're not impressed with their flip statement that all they have to do to the Valkyrie to get it ready is to "detune it". As my friend Mark said: "When the flag drops the bullshit stops."

https://www.motor1.com/news/364448/g...WxVWX8nhIu3KCk

The Valkyrie's engine might be what has to be "detuned", but I doubt the car itself is already at lmp1 pace. If it was then why is the rules pushing the cars to 1100kg? It'd be interesting to know who asked or pushed for the cars to be that heavy. Imo, it's someone with a road car that's already that heavy, and there's only one team besides yours that are claiming to use a road car.

[Deleted]

But it is not really the worry of AMR to put it to the pace of anything, as such is the task of BoP committee... So in that regards they are correct in not having to worry, even if the tone of the voice is arrogant

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

But it is not really the worry of AMR to put it to the pace of anything, as such is the task of BoP committee... So in that regards they are correct in not having to worry, even if the tone of the voice is arrogant

IMHO a RWD/KERS with a small light ICE will have a lot of advantages that even BOP will have trouble evening out.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Napolis

IMHO a RWD/KERS with a small light ICE will have a lot of advantages that even BOP will have trouble evening out.

since max power output will be the same for everyone, guess that a small-mid sized turbo will be the best choice... toyota has a f1 tech comparable turbo V6, AMR valkirye uses a huge NA V12 revving >10000rpm...



wonder how much petrol valkirye would require a stint....



aside this, TMG has already a basically developed car... AMR struggles to understand the aero of their own car....

[TF110]

Originally Posted by canaglia

since max power output will be the same for everyone, guess that a small-mid sized turbo will be the best choice... toyota has a f1 tech comparable turbo V6, AMR valkirye uses a huge NA V12 revving >10000rpm...



wonder how much petrol valkirye would require a stint....



aside this, TMG has already a basically developed car... AMR struggles to understand the aero of their own car....

I wouldn't bet against the Valkyrie. Newey designed it and he's one of the best aero guys in the racing world. The engine is going to be detuned from its 1000+hp, so it seems like a good thing for reliability and fuel consumption. Hybrids are limited too, no more 400hp electric power to the wheels. It's 150. Engine power might be a better bet. Higher top speed and the hybrids will be limited to fwd and activation at 100 or 120kmh.That negates a lot of the acceleration advantages but in the wet it is definitely advantageous.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

I wouldn't bet against the Valkyrie. Newey designed it and he's one of the best aero guys in the racing world. The engine is going to be detuned from its 1000+hp, so it seems like a good thing for reliability and fuel consumption. Hybrids are limited too, no more 400hp electric power to the wheels. It's 150. Engine power might be a better bet. Higher top speed and the hybrids will be limited to fwd and activation at 100 or 120kmh.That negates a lot of the acceleration advantages but in the wet it is definitely advantageous.

Do you think Hypercar survives if Aston Martin (the company) completely collapses and gets liquidated? It’s looking like there is a real chance that this could happen before the end of 2019 if you look at the company’s cash holdings. Would the WEC continue with the concept having just Toyota and Glick battle it out at the top?

Also, Lamborghini interested in Hypercar (https://carbuzz.com/news/lamborghini-wants-to-attack-aston-martin-at-le-mans)?

[Deleted]

Even if AMR were to collapse, I don't think the rest of the grid for 2020-2021 opener is looking too bad (unfortunately, as I'd like to see it fail and go back to P1...) so there isn't crisis to be had

2x Toyota Hypercar
2x Glickenhaus Hypercar
1x ByKolles Hypercar
0-2x Ginetta LMP1-Neutered
0-2x Rebellion Oreca (Hybrid?) LMP1-Neutered

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Even if AMR were to collapse, I don't think the rest of the grid for 2020-2021 opener is looking too bad (unfortunately, as I'd like to see it fail and go back to P1...) so there isn't crisis to be had

2x Toyota Hypercar
2x Glickenhaus Hypercar
1x ByKolles Hypercar
0-2x Ginetta LMP1-Neutered
0-2x Rebellion Oreca (Hybrid?) LMP1-Neutered

What is the point of including neutered P1 cars when you can just neuter P2 cars, which are a lot cheaper to buy/run and are built on a very similar chassis?

Also, I think Rebellion (the watch company) might be done funding cars to run in the top class. I’m guessing their P1 budget for 2019/20 is mostly being funded by the drivers in their lineup.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

What is the point of including neutered P1 cars when you can just neuter P2 cars, which are a lot cheaper to buy/run and are built on a very similar chassis?

Also, I think Rebellion (the watch company) might be done funding cars to run in the top class. I’m guessing their P1 budget for 2019/20 is mostly being funded by the drivers in their lineup.

Because those cars/teams already exist and bought into the top class, not the lmp2 class. So why should they have to buy an lmp2 when they made the investment and effort to race against Toyota in the first place?

There's already people saying they don't cater enough to private entries in the top class, telling them to drop their cars for p2's would be even worse.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

Because those cars/teams already exist and bought into the top class, not the lmp2 class. So why should they have to buy an lmp2 when they made the investment and effort to race against Toyota in the first place?

There's already people saying they don't cater enough to private entries in the top class, telling them to drop their cars for p2's would be even worse.

Rebellion already owns P2's and appears to be significantly cutting funding, ByKolles said they were going to build a hypercar, and I'll be surprised if Ginetta makes in through the entire season with 2 entries. It mike make more sense to open up the top class to the 30-50ish LMP2/3 teams that race globally if they are going to include neutered LMP's into hypercar.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Rebellion already owns P2's and appears to be significantly cutting funding, ByKolles said they were going to build a hypercar, and I'll be surprised if Ginetta makes in through the entire season with 2 entries. It mike make more sense to open up the top class to the 30-50ish LMP2/3 teams that race globally if they are going to include neutered LMP's into hypercar.

Do Rebellion still have the P2s? Or were they sold on/expired lease?

Letting in LMP1s isn't the same as letting in LMP2s/LMP3s.

[Deleted]

Besides why would anyone bother with Hypercar or whatever if their cheap, spec, rebranded Oreca-Alpine-Aurus-Lada P2s could just be bopped to the pace of overall win

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Besides why would anyone bother with Hypercar or whatever if their cheap, spec, rebranded Oreca-Alpine-Aurus-Lada P2s could just be bopped to the pace of overall win

This is why I don't think we are going to see LMP's in Hypercar. It will be interesting to see if the ACO/FIA will ever get to the point where they are letting the smaller teams consistently beat the Toyota's/other major factory players.

[GasperG]

Some cheap garage converted LMP2 will newer be BOPed to the same level as the hypercar.

It's simple, If one want's to have best chances to win LeMans, one must get to hypercar class. Others will have their chance only when hypercars run into issues. Face it, it's the only reality.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by GasperG

Some cheap garage converted LMP2 will newer be BOPed to the same level as the hypercar.

The target lap time for hypercar is 3:30. LMP2 are already ahead of that.

[GasperG]

They WERE ahead of that lap time. Slowing down LMP2 is a simple task for regulators, even if one reworks LMP2 into to LMP1 the regulators will still slow them down under hypercar class.

I just hope the target 3:30 is a joke and we will se lower times than that.

[Akrapovic]

No they ARE ahead of that lap time. They currently lap faster than that. So you don't need to BoP up an LMP2 to Hypercar speed. You need to BoP it down.

If you're referring to the next generation LMP2, then it's impossible to claim because nobody knows what it is. But certainly, the current generation is capable of those lap times.

[GasperG]

Yes I know, the thread is Future regulation, so I was writing ahead of the time.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by GasperG

Yes I know, the thread is Future regulation, so I was writing ahead of the time.

But you are making guarantees about a category no one knows anything about, BOP that can't be established yet since there are NO cars to balance, and frankly a field that may NEED cars outside of the hypercar realm just to maintain the WEC moniker the ACO and FIA seem so desperate to think is needed. 2 Toyota and Glickenhaus cars aren't going to keep things going, and no one else is even close to promoting a car, at this point Aston has so many other things to worry about it's in the same boat as Ginetta and ByKolles bringing forth a hypercar. Although AMR's boat may been even leakier.

[GasperG]

What else is there to know? "Hypercar" class will be the top class all other classes will be regulated according to the performance of this top class.

There is test day and a few races before LeMans, plenty of time to make final adjustments.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by GasperG

What else is there to know?

Everything. We literally know nothing about the new LMP2.

Also, the chat was about grand-fathering in current LMP1/LMP2 cars. Both of these classes are fast enough to beat the Hypercar target time.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Everything. We literally know nothing about the new LMP2.

Also, the chat was about grand-fathering in current LMP1/LMP2 cars. Both of these classes are fast enough to beat the Hypercar target time.

They are going to end up with the IMSA DP & P2 issues if they try to BoP two formulas (HC & P1) that are so different

[joeb]

Did I miss something about Aston ending their program? I understand the company may be missing their financial targets, but has there been any word on their racing activities?