[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Wonder what the next specification of cars would be called?

EV21TC

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not sure the teams would all be around frankly. But ok if you think it's cheap to run these cars then fine.

I dont for one moment think the current cars are cheap but if they exist they are certainly cheaper than the new build you are suggesting ....

[S griffin]

If they keep the current cars for a bit longer, would it be any different from what F1 is doing with keeping the current cars for 2021?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I dont for one moment think the current cars are cheap but if they exist they are certainly cheaper than the new build you are suggesting ....

Ok, but then you need a massive team to run them. I was postulating that the losses from this year present a massive change and as such the current organisations will be culled. If so, who will be around to run the things?

Under these circumstances I'd expect a less technically challenging set of regs.

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Ok, but then you need a massive team to run them. I was postulating that the losses from this year present a massive change and as such the current organisations will be culled. If so, who will be around to run the things?

Under these circumstances I'd expect a less technically challenging set of regs.

Why would you need a massive team to run them, the hybrid system that they are planning on using isn’t that complicated, the teams won’t have to employ extra people to run them

[S griffin]

Indeed knowing TOCA they would have made sure it was a cheap option for all

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Pdh

Why would you need a massive team to run them, the hybrid system that they are planning on using isn’t that complicated, the teams won’t have to employ extra people to run them

It's more a case of the teams are massive now. If you're slimming back on budget you'd want to be able to run the car from the back of a transit with a couple of mechanics per car.

If you move to simpler regs then the cars may be new build (incurring a cost) but that could potentially be done for less than continuing to run the current cars for another year - purely by reducing the number of people required to run them.

To illustrate using simple numbers (made up):

NGTC:
Car cost to build: £250K
Car cost to run for season: £100K
10 mechanics @ £10K (so £100K)

So assuming you're going to use a car you've already got your yearly cost is £200K

Cheapo TC:
Car cost to build: £100K
Car cost to run for season: £30K
2 mechanics @ £10K (so £20K)

So total cost including building the new spec car is £150K so cheaper than carrying on running the existing cars.

Obviously that's a huge oversimplification but it illustrates the point - building new doesn't necessarily mean increased cost to the teams (providing running costs - including manpower) are significantly reduced.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

It's more a case of the teams are massive now. If you're slimming back on budget you'd want to be able to run the car from the back of a transit with a couple of mechanics per car.

If you move to simpler regs then the cars may be new build (incurring a cost) but that could potentially be done for less than continuing to run the current cars for another year - purely by reducing the number of people required to run them.

To illustrate using simple numbers (made up):

NGTC:
Car cost to build: £250K
Car cost to run for season: £100K
10 mechanics @ £10K (so £100K)

So assuming you're going to use a car you've already got your yearly cost is £200K

Cheapo TC:
Car cost to build: £100K
Car cost to run for season: £30K
2 mechanics @ £10K (so £20K)

So total cost including building the new spec car is £150K so cheaper than carrying on running the existing cars.

Obviously that's a huge oversimplification but it illustrates the point - building new doesn't necessarily mean increased cost to the teams (providing running costs - including manpower) are significantly reduced.

I totally understand the point here - and I agree in principle that cheaper racing is possible.

But there are still likely to be teams on the grid who will have higher budgets. Will they still want to run in what might be seen as a 'budget' series?

It is also worth considering that a lot of teams on the grid are able to run because they have not got new builds.
HARD, Parker, TPC, MB, are all running someone else's new build. If we move to a new rule-set entirely, could these teams fund new builds?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

But there are still likely to be teams on the grid who will have higher budgets. Will they still want to run in what might be seen as a 'budget' series?

It may be a 'budget' series but it would still be the BTCC so would still have that appeal. As with now teams spend what they have - WSR and Dynamics spend far more than HARD per car at a meeting, the same would presumably continue if they were running cheaper cars - budgets would reduce but budget disparity would remain (as it does at every level of competitive motorsport)

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It is also worth considering that a lot of teams on the grid are able to run because they have not got new builds.
HARD, Parker, TPC, MB, are all running someone else's new build. If we move to a new rule-set entirely, could these teams fund new builds?

Depending on how basic the rules are potentially all teams could buidl their own cars.

This is all very much "what if" territory at the moment of course - the official line is still that the 2020 season will happen.

[Sodemo]

I think TCR would have been a cheaper alternative. Much cheaper cars to buy or build, but the running costs may be higher.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think TCR would have been a cheaper alternative. Much cheaper cars to buy or build, but the running costs may be higher.

I understand there are safety issues with these cars in that they are a bit more fragile than BTCC cars. I stand to be corrected.

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by S griffin

So to try and to keep people’s spirits up, what has everyone been looking forward most to this season?

For me I have been looking forward to seeing Mat Jackson back most of all and also been looking forward to seeing other teams with different drivers from last season, like Sonic and Cook at BTC or Hill at MB Motorsport or Bobby Thompson and James Gornall at TPR. Not forgetting the new Hyundai too

And also seeing how Oliphant does in his second season with WSR and whether Cammish could go one better

My spirits are fairly high. Family is healthy, demand on the farm from our customers is huge and what's left of my farm in Zim is picking up as well. So very lucky given what's happening to many people at the moment

Btcc, can't wait to see Hill in the FK2 and also how Crees gets on at BTC. If he does hit it off they look to have a really strong team. Also Jackson back in the series

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I understand there are safety issues with these cars in that they are a bit more fragile than BTCC cars. I stand to be corrected.

First time ive heard that about TCR... However the NGTC cars arent without their issues. The frequency of the rear suspension getting broken after a mild knock certainly is a weak point of the design.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

First time ive heard that about TCR... However the NGTC cars arent without their issues. The frequency of the rear suspension getting broken after a mild knock certainly is a weak point of the design.

As has been repeatedly explained, it isn't a weak point of the design.

Suspension parts are cheap and easy to replace. Making them break on lateral impact is far preferable to having that energy dissipating through the car, potentially damaging the cage or other parts that would be timeconsuming and expensive to repair.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I understand there are safety issues with these cars in that they are a bit more fragile than BTCC cars. I stand to be corrected.

Safety issues? Really??? So a fully FIA homologated set of regs/cars have safety issues - if that was the case then FIA would have to ground every single TCR car being used until a fix for the 'safety issue' was resolved.

[Peter Mallett]

I said I stand to be corrected but I was told by one of the drivers. Hey ho.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by sceptic

As has been repeatedly explained, it isn't a weak point of the design.

Suspension parts are cheap and easy to replace. Making them break on lateral impact is far preferable to having that energy dissipating through the car, potentially damaging the cage or other parts that would be timeconsuming and expensive to repair.

I totally understand the reasoning, however when it results in a DNF every time it happens, what is the cost of a potential "race win" or even a championship? Quite a few drivers have had this happen, most notably Turkington and Jordan in a BMW and Honda respectively. Both were in title winning positions, luckily for Jordan it didn't cost him the championship, but in Colin's case it did.

I heard someone say that the RML part for this is lighter and the GPRM part was tougher? Any truth?

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I said I stand to be corrected but I was told by one of the drivers. Hey ho.

Is that just a driver moaning about the amount of bits which fall off during a shunt? TCR cars are based off road cars, therefore perform like a road car in a crash. You want to dissipate as much energy as possible to stop it transferring to the cabin & occupants, this means that a lot of bits 'drop off' as it is a way of removing energy from the car. NGTC on the otherhand is a 'proper' race car, built ground up as a racecar then clad with some exterior panels which make it look like a road car. Therefore bits are more likely to stay intact as they can be re-engineered to be a bit more resilient during a crash.

[Spanner monkey]

Originally Posted by sceptic

As has been repeatedly explained, it isn't a weak point of the design.

Suspension parts are cheap and easy to replace. Making them break on lateral impact is far preferable to having that energy dissipating through the car, potentially damaging the cage or other parts that would be timeconsuming and expensive to repair.

The GPRM parts were alot more resistant to damage from a 'slight tap' at least they could carry on to finish the race. The RML stuff is tubular wishbones as opposed to GPRM machined from ally wishbones.
And the GPRM wheel nuts don't undo themselves either... 🙄

[AmD Tuning]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I said I stand to be corrected but I was told by one of the drivers. Hey ho.

First rule of Team Management: Never listen to the drivers!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by antnee

Is that just a driver moaning about the amount of bits which fall off during a shunt?

No. It was related to how (in his opinion) fragile they are structurally.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

No. It was related to how (in his opinion) fragile they are structurally.

Probably told that by somebody trying to justify why NGTC is more expensive.

[Peter Mallett]

Or probably why he refused a drive.

[medius]

Ladbrokes were the Motorbase title sponsor. No sport now meant they pulled the plug on the Friday before media day.

Ive heard that from two unconnected sources now. One who runs a junior team on the support package, and another driver coach to a Porsche squad.

[thetool]

Almost every sponsor that isn't the driver or close families own company is going to be out unless they've already paid up (most are done in installments, and typically the first major one will only be around the time of the first round), and a lot of the self-sponsored drivers may reconsider their position as well.