[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[medius]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

Agreed.

Most times a post is just a post, not a personal attack itching to be deconstructed in pursuit of internet points.

I think it's just extended silly season cabin fever due to the lack of new things to discuss.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I did know that BMR were running the 888 cars, and that they were 'combined' financially at the time. Thanks for going back through my posts to remind me.

It was a simple case of, at the time of running 6 cars was posted, my recollection was that they were being run separately. Is it wrong for someone to request clarification of something that didn't immediately spring to mind?

Once I was kindly reminded by S Griffin, I had thought I made it clear that I now recalled the 2017 situation, and actually posted a discussion point on this.

So why continue to attack the request for clarification I made?

So you have just now clarified that you knew exactly what the '6 cars at BMR' meant but you still had to pull apart the post anyway. You have frequented the BTCC topics enough to know that team names are just fronts for larger teams/operations which is no secret - so why get so pedantic over the simple terms that other posters use?

[Alfisti]

So is Speedworks being the "official" hybrid test team new news or old news?

Autosport has an article. I have not yet read it as my boredom level has not yet reached a point where "hybrid" is interesting enough to take note of!

(Is it just me non-plussed about hybrid stuff?)

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

So you have just now clarified that you knew exactly what the '6 cars at BMR' meant but you still had to pull apart the post anyway. You have frequented the BTCC topics enough to know that team names are just fronts for larger teams/operations which is no secret - so why get so pedantic over the simple terms that other posters use?

I knew in 2017, and I know now.

When the '6' was mentioned though, I couldn't recall that knowledge at that specific point in time.

In what way is posting '6?' in request for clarification pulling apart the post?
I'm regularly having to look up who drove what, when and for who, even in relation to 2019 drives occasionally.

In this case, searches for BMR typically only ever reveal a maximum entry of 4 cars. I apologise if I lack the encyclopedic knowledge required to never have to request clarification.

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

So is Speedworks being the "official" hybrid test team new news or old news?

Autosport has an article. I have not yet read it as my boredom level has not yet reached a point where "hybrid" is interesting enough to take note of!

(Is it just me non-plussed about hybrid stuff?)

New news as of today, I got the email announcement this morning.

It's actually interesting to me how they intend to use it to replace success ballast, and it introduces another tactical element to the racing - currently their talking about 15 seconds of boost per lap, to be used as the driver sees fit (ie to attack or defend). Boost should be ~40hp.

[crmalcolm]

Coincidence that the test car for the original NGTC regs was a Toyota, and now the hybrid test car will be a Toyota?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by gregc

New news as of today, I got the email announcement this morning.

It's actually interesting to me how they intend to use it to replace success ballast, and it introduces another tactical element to the racing - currently their talking about 15 seconds of boost per lap, to be used as the driver sees fit (ie to attack or defend). Boost should be ~40hp.

Ugh. All for hybrid power, but for me this 'push to pass' is just going to run it. It's hardly a good overtake if one driver's got 40 bhp extra power.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by antnee

It is getting very tedious how you have to respond to every post pulling every detail apart. Just chill out.

👆🏼

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Ugh. All for hybrid power, but for me this 'push to pass' is just going to run it. It's hardly a good overtake if one driver's got 40 bhp extra power.

I remain to be convinced, but I'm prepared to be - they've all got 40hp extra to use for a limited time per lap, how they choose to use it could be interesting. There's also plenty of time between now and '22 for things to change of course.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

...maybe, just maybe, Mr Malcolm has a memory like mine. Or has other things on his mind.

I'd forgotten the VWs were run out of the farm that year for Here One Minute Gone The Next Racing!

(Edit)

You're on about the woefully badly prepared MGs.

Was it eight cars at the farm or was it BKR one year and 888 the next?

I'm sure 888 were at the farm in 2016 along with the Subarus and the Volkswagens were in a separate shed, which seems apt..... I think 888 had vacated Greatworth by that point and Multimatic had taken over the building.

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Ugh. All for hybrid power, but for me this 'push to pass' is just going to run it. It's hardly a good overtake if one driver's got 40 bhp extra power.

In Indycar when they had the push to pass boost the drivers actually called it "push not to pass" as it was used far more often to defend than attack.


They'll all have exactly the same use of it so it's down to them where they choose to deploy it.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I'm sure 888 were at the farm in 2016 along with the Subarus and the Volkswagens were in a separate shed, which seems apt..... I think 888 had vacated Greatworth by that point and Multimatic had taken over the building.

Question, I see in the TOCA release that the hybrid cars must be powered in the pit road by electrical power Does this mean the cars in the garage at pit entry will have to use more battery life than the car at pit exit garage to get to the exit? Will that disadvantage the entry cars in the opening laps?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Question, I see in the TOCA release that the hybrid cars must be powered in the pit road by electrical power Does this mean the cars in the garage at pit entry will have to use more battery life than the car at pit exit garage to get to the exit? Will that disadvantage the entry cars in the opening laps?

The difference in power usage between the different ends of the grid will be tiny. They will have one lap to get to the grid and one or two green flag laps before the first racing lap during which that power can be re-generated.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Question, I see in the TOCA release that the hybrid cars must be powered in the pit road by electrical power Does this mean the cars in the garage at pit entry will have to use more battery life than the car at pit exit garage to get to the exit? Will that disadvantage the entry cars in the opening laps?

I'd expect the lap to the grid and formation lap will be enough to fully charge the system.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Question, I see in the TOCA release that the hybrid cars must be powered in the pit road by electrical power Does this mean the cars in the garage at pit entry will have to use more battery life than the car at pit exit garage to get to the exit? Will that disadvantage the entry cars in the opening laps?

I don't think it will, provided the battery retains enough energy to supply the 15s per lap limit.

[Spanner monkey]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I don't think it will, provided the battery retains enough energy to supply the 15s per lap limit.

If the cars on charge between race's it leave the garage on full charge so with an out lap and a green flag lap it'll be 100%

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Spanner monkey

If the cars on charge between race's it leave the garage on full charge so with an out lap and a green flag lap it'll be 100%

Yes, agreed.

In answer to the original question posed, those nearest pit entrance will deplete their energy store more than those near pit exit.
But, provided the recovery system is working, then out lap, green flag lap and lap one (the system is not available until lap two) should see the charge fully recovered.

[antnee]

They could just run some extension leads out to the grid

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

They could just run some extension leads out to the grid

Just imagine the carnage if someone forgot to unplug!!

[Sodemo]

I am not keen on any push to pass system. I just think it will make overtaking pointless. If driver A has already used his boost for a lap, and then driver B chooses to use his, driver A cannot defend and therefore its a "motorway pass", they won't fight it. Is that what people want to see?

I don't mind hybrid tech being used as a matter of principle, however I would rather it be worked into the normal drivetrain and just boost the forward motion at certain rev ranges or speeds, so like from 80-150kph the system is active, then below that or above it the system shuts off.

[Matt K]

I agree, even though the 'Push to Pass' works well in IndyCar for instance, in DTM is also pretty good. But somehow I wouldn't like to see it in BTCC, we sort of got used to 'raw' overtaking in BTCC, it's not highly aero-driven series and generally lack of passing and action is not an issue so I can't see the reason to implement push to pass. I feel it could make racing worse, sort of more 'artificial.'

[Alfisti]

Artificial, that's the word. One of the reasons I ceased watching F1 is the artificial DRS stuff.

I want to watch a man (or woman) in his machine outfox another man in his machine. Otherwise it's no different to watching a Focus RS at traffic lights vs a family run around; it's obvious that the Focus will leave the other car standing - unless the driver is content to pootle around at a leisurely pace.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Artificial, that's the word.

You mean success ballast, mandatory option tyres and goldfish-bowl-of-destiny reverse grids weren't artificial enough already?

[Alfisti]

Yeah, I know. I don't really like any of that crap, especially hate the having to use rubbish tyres one race per weekend nonsense - it's like Mo Farrah having to run one race in three in hobnail boots.

Push to pass is computer game nonsense and isn't racing to me. I'd rather watch NASCAR where the best car/ driver combination normally wins... normally.

[S griffin]

I can live with those success ballest, reverse grid and tyre rules, they are more of a setup. The power to pass I’m not so keen on, BTCC can race and overtake without it. However the worst was when we had the boost changes which meant drivers couldn’t get past in the straight line