Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[V8 Fireworks]

Is this the future? 680bhp, rear wheel drive, EV. The way they move around is pretty similar to a V8 Supercar. The only real impediment is the 6 lap maximum range at considerably reduced power compared to the hot lap output.

Hot lap: https://youtu.be/WisOlGMBSF0?t=2597



If not a direct replacement, perhaps a EV Supercars/ATCC series should be launched to complement the ICE Supercars/ATCC series? It would show that the Australian Touring Car Championship is aware of the electrification push and are moving with the times, sponsors from beyond the auto industry would find that very attractive.

[Casper]

As much as I like BEV's for racing and the simplicity they offer they are still years away from being a viable option but yes they are most probably the future unless some genius can make Hydrogen a better alternative and that is most probably more years away than BEV's. Hydrogen to be viable needs to be produced by sustainable energy and not fossil based as it is now. Hydrogen in a IC motor is a very poor idea as well due to the inefficiencies involved so it will be fuel cell all the way.

[bathurst77]

Time to take the ATCC title and crown from Supercars and award it to TCR

[Mixer]

You are joking. They couldn't even scrape together a race last year and staggered from one benefactor to another.

Majority owner of the series fields half the cars.

Not even close.

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[S griffin]

TCR is good in it's own right, but it will always be in Supercars shadow. Like the Super Touring series in the 90s

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Time to take the ATCC title and crown from Supercars and award it to TCR

A puzzling comment because they are both faced with the same problems continuing with the ICE motor presents. The Europeans are in a headlong rush to put in place enough BEV cars to avoid not meeting the legislative requirements they are faced with and I guess the ICE is going to get trampled in the rush. I am sure the penny has yet to drop for those in motor sport but it is going to happen we just refuse to see it. The reports yesterday from the UN will not make things easier for anyone but I doubt it will move our political masters in Oz. The US has joined the charge as well but Biden's biggest problem is turning plans into legislation.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a37235...t-evs-by-2030/

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Time to take the ATCC title and crown from Supercars and award it to TCR

Agreed. The Bathurst 1000 too (ARG can probably make their own, as the Supercars one isn't the official ARDC race anyway). Hear, hear.

Originally Posted by Mixer

Majority owner of the series fields half the cars.

At least there are brands on the grid that don't come from Detroit, Michigan.

Do you think it's a coincidence the Adelaide 500, Sydney 500 and Hamilton 400 are all dead? It's because Supercars is a heavily declining product that is increasingly irrelevant. I couldn't care less when I miss a race, whereas in the Ambrose/Murphy era it was far more captivating viewing.

The Australian Touring Car Championship being an Americana series is frankly absurd. The majority of enthusiasts in Australia drive Ford Focus RSes, BMW M cars, AMGs, Volkswagen Golf Rs, Renault Sports, Honda Type Rs... Not Mustangs or Camaros!

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Agreed. The Bathurst 1000 too (ARG can probably make their own, as the Supercars one isn't the official ARDC race anyway). Hear, hear.



At least there are brands on the grid that don't come from Detroit, Michigan.

Do you think it's a coincidence the Adelaide 500, Sydney 500 and Hamilton 400 are all dead? It's because Supercars is a heavily declining product that is increasingly irrelevant. I couldn't care less when I miss a race, whereas in the Ambrose/Murphy era it was far more captivating viewing.

The Australian Touring Car Championship being an Americana series is frankly absurd. The majority of enthusiasts in Australia drive Ford Focus RSes, BMW M cars, AMGs, Volkswagen Golf Rs, Renault Sports, Honda Type Rs... Not Mustangs or Camaros!

Bathurst 1000 with tcr cars? Please.... what a borefest that would be! I can't see what's so exciting in TCR... these cars aren't spectacular at all, TCR Australia is just some marginal series, no big sponsors involved, no big teams involved. What's so interesting in this?

The fact that more people drive Golfs or Renaults doesn't make the championship more interesting. I'd rather see 'Americana' championship with exciting, powerful cars than slow, boring TCR cars.

Your argument about Adelaide 500, Hamilton 400 etc may prove the point that Supercars is in decline but you should take a look at a broader perspective - motorsport IS declining and it happens almost everywhere. Your argument doesn't prove a point against Supercars and FOR TCR. Do you really think that awarding ATCC and Bathurst 1000 to TCR Oz would make viewership booming and events like Clipsal 500 returning? Never. If TCR was really so great, TCR Australia would already be a hugely popular series and WTCR (its bigger, more important cousin) would be seen as the most popular and important touring car championship in the world. Neither is true.

Axing Adelaide 500 or Sydney 500 is a broader problem because organising such events no longer attracts so many people, such a big sponsorships, TV rates etc as before because current environment is changing. Nothing to do with Supercars/TCR dilemma.

Sorry, but for me saying that TCR should become ATCC and acquire Bathurst 1000 is like saying that Daytona 500 should be moved to ARCA and this becoming a major stock car 'American' championship.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Matt K

The fact that more people drive Golfs or Renaults doesn't make the championship more interesting. I'd rather see 'Americana' championship with exciting, powerful cars than slow, boring TCR cars.

Enjoy it while you can because it has not much time left. I wonder what those who enjoy it will watch then.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I'd rather see 'Americana' championship with exciting, powerful cars than slow, boring TCR cars.

Have you even driven a late model Honda Civic Type R? The 80-120 km/hr time is within 1 tenth of a second of a HSV GTS that has nearly twice as much power!

By most measures it's quite a fast car. The power-to-weight is only 3% less than a VF Commodore SS-V which has a dramatically larger engine.

As a touring car, a Type R or a GTI is relevant to what we actually drive and enjoy around towns and on our favourite tight & twisty mountain backroad full of hairpin bends.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Have you even driven a late model Honda Civic Type R? The 80-120 km/hr time is within 1 tenth of a second of a HSV GTS that has nearly twice as much power!

By most measures it's quite a fast car. The power-to-weight is only 3% less than a VF Commodore SS-V which has a dramatically larger engine.

As a touring car, a Type R or a GTI is relevant to what we actually drive and enjoy around towns and on our favourite tight & twisty mountain backroad full of hairpin bends.

A Type R or GTI may be what YOU actually drive and enjoy but I would suggest the local school daily drop off indicates the Super Utes should be the thing.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by sizzle

A Type R or GTI may be what YOU actually drive and enjoy but I would suggest the local school daily drop off indicates the Super Utes should be the thing.

That's true!

I wouldn't be averse to a SuperUtes silhouette series with control running gear -- at least it would have more than two brands in it! You could bring in Toyota, Mazda, bring back Nissan, Isuzu, Volkswagen etc. It would be good for the Australian [Touring Car, strike that] Utility Championship.

Just for the love of God, use the single-cab or space cab RWD bodies and not the dual-cab 4x4 versions!

Perhaps, make sure the engine regulations have BOP and are flexible. So you could have a quad-rotor in the Mazda BT50, a souped-up EA888 four-popper in the Amarok, a LS in the Chevy Colorado... Variety is the key! And, sure let the entrants run a turbo-diesel if they can get the required power too.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Casper

Enjoy it while you can because it has not much time left. I wonder what those who enjoy it will watch then.

Definitely not TCR.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Enjoy it while you can because it has not much time left. I wonder what those who enjoy it will watch then.

And yet people said the same thing 25 years ago...

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

And yet people said the same thing 25 years ago...

Your comment reflects many who refuse to acknowledge the huge permanent changes taking place but carry on and we might be able to revisit and quote you in five years time. The Holden and Ford factories that supplied the vehicles seem to have vaporised as well but I do like your optimism.

[Compromised]

Can anyone explain the current situation in regards to paddle shift? Every other day a new article pops up "driver A against paddle shift", "ex driver B says paddle shift will ruin sport" etc. yet the consensus seems to be paddle shift WILL be part of GEN3.

Why?

Roland and Supercars themselves are the only ones offering positivity on the subject, usually citing cost cutting, naturally a big concern for T8 lol.

So what's the deal? There doesn't appear to be any affiliation between T8 and Xtrac so self interest doesn't seem likely

[Umai Naa]

It's a beat-up.

Paddleshift won't detract nor add to the show.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

It's a beat-up.

Paddleshift won't detract nor add to the show.

Wot he said. Next thing is they will want to go back to drum brakes as well, vacuum windscreen wipers would be good as well.

[Mattracer]

I really reject the idea of paddle shift not just in Supercars but in any category. Watching the footage of the H- pattern shifting you see the skill of using the engine braking to balance and/or slow the car. Also from the tv viewing perspective it’s much more interesting and engaging to watch. The technique of some drivers such as Skaife and Johnson skipping gears on the downshifts vs others such as Murphy for example who appeared to go back through the gears in sequence and his left foot braking techniques. I know the risk of engine detonation from over-revving or a missed gear is a concern in the costs department but that risk is worth having in my view. Puts them on edge where their techniques can shine. There is simply awesome footage of Senna at Adelaide and Suzuka qualifying in 1991 and if anyone needed to see a masterclass on how to use a manual gearbox (and how to actually drive a race car, period) it’s right there. I urge you to see it. You’ll watch it over and over- it’s mesmerising. Something lacking so much in racing now.

[one five five]

The irony being at the time no one marvelled or cared at how Senna changed gear on that lap.

Did Nigel Mansell complain that he wouldn’t be able to make a mistake changing gear or it was too easy when John Barnard presented him with paddles for the 1989 Brazilian GP? Admittedly it didn’t work great, but he won the race and I doubt the fans were whinging that it wasn’t a h-pattern

This whole thing would be a non-issue if the likes of Percat had concentrated on their driving instead of mouthing off about technical regulations that shouldn’t concern them.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Matt K

TCR Australia is just some marginal series, no big sponsors involved, no big teams involved. What's so interesting in this?.

I would argue that Supercheap and GRM are big names.
Im not saying VASC has no place and should end, my point is the TC in ATCC is touring cars, which were traditionally modified versions of mainstream production cars. Supercars are really sports sedans, which were purpose built chassis with "look alike" road car bodies.

In the 70s we had a booming sports sedan champs, with the moffstang, super falcon, charger, wild toranas and monaros and other goodies. They big tough crude loud and exciting. everything supercars claims now.

And we had touring cars, which were "closer to stock" actual production cars albeit highly modified, with pro and part time teams.

We had both then, why not now? Award Aust sports sedan champ to supercars and ATCC to tcr. How does VASC suffer if they are switched to sports sedan list? what pain will they feel? Supercars have buried and ignored ATCC title anyway, they dont want or care very much.
But giving the title atcc to tcr might even get more cars or sponsors in that class. win-win.

I dont see it as us v them, I want to see ALL classes maximised, nd the best fit titles for each class. In a perfect world there would be some form or other of quality well supported motor racing every weekend (Ok take xmas week off if you must)

[Mixer]

Traditionally a marriage was between a man and a woman....

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[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Traditionally a marriage was between a man and a woman....

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What does my relationship with Fido have to do with it? I love her and she loves me, as long as i take her for walkies

[tux]

Video of the new Camaro engine being tested. Looks like its in a Trans am car? Sounds good imo.

https://www.supercars.com/videos/cha...o-gen3-engine/

Im not into all the technical details so im sure theres an easy answer (probably cost reduction?) but id have presumed it would have been easier to take the current Supercars engine used in the Commadore and fit it to the Camaro than to need a new engine alongside a new car, no?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by tux

Video of the new Camaro engine being tested. Looks like its in a Trans am car? Sounds good imo.

https://www.supercars.com/videos/cha...o-gen3-engine/

Im not into all the technical details so im sure theres an easy answer (probably cost reduction?) but id have presumed it would have been easier to take the current Supercars engine used in the Commadore and fit it to the Camaro than to need a new engine alongside a new car, no?

Supposed to be cheaper and probably have exhaust similar to current ones