Top Gear Survey.

**Adam43** · 9 Nov 2003, 21:20 (Ref:778187)

Sort off interesting and it does have some weight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog16/survey.shtml

It is good that the Jaguar XJ came first. Showing that Jaguar do something right (the things they are best at).

However
104th: X-Type.
narrowly beating the old Ford Mondeo

it is obvious where Jaguar's talnts lie and where they don't.

Other noteable ones.
3rd: Skoda Octavia. Seems this could be the one to get from that stable - rather than the obvious and predictable VW.
8th: BMW Z3. Did well, I am surprised, I'd heard bad things about build quality.

Check out the list. Any other oddities?

rdjones · 9 Nov 2003, 21:45 (Ref:778209)

My Rover 25 comes in at number 101 with a score of 76.6 overall.......

**Craig** · 9 Nov 2003, 21:47 (Ref:778211)

Maybe someone can remind me when Top Gear is about to come on next week as I've not seen it since the second programme in the last series!

Dave Brand · 10 Nov 2003, 12:06 (Ref:778725)

Hmmm....

3rd Skoda Octavia
116th Alfa 147

Guess which I'd rather have! (Clue: it wouldn't be a VW group product!)

garcon · 10 Nov 2003, 14:01 (Ref:778846)

The best way to enjoy an Alfa is to drive someone else's (but don't rely on it for longer than a couple of hours). Owning one ain't no fun. Trust me, a friend of mine is an Alfa Dealer Sales Manager - he's on first name terms with most of his customers because they have to bring their cars back so often.

Shocking performance by Mercedes - it's obvious their product quality has nose-dived, and the 'ownership experience' is invariably made worse by over-priced, unhelpful and incompetent dealers. I certainly won't bother buying another one. Seems to be reflected - to a lesser extent - in the performance of the other German marques too. They should all take a leaf out of Lexus' book.

Jaguar should look closely at the results. The XJ was a well established vehicle, with a loyal following. That first place is down to an excellent all round service and a car that has been steadily improved year on year. Similar story for the S-Type. So their customer service is good, which means the poor showing of the X-Type (significantly worse than the current Mondeo on which it is based) can only be because the car is terrible! I hope the new XJ doesn't suffer as many problems.

Fiat remain a company in mortal danger. Their cars are still

and their dealers don't care. Citroen and Renault aren't much better.

For reliability, customer service and the whole ownership picture, it seems you still can't beat the Japs!

**Adam43** · 10 Nov 2003, 18:29 (Ref:779067)

The main problem with the Jags is that every XJ undergoes quality control when it comes off the production line. The S-Type is one in ten and the X-Type is one in 30,000. (made up Clarkson-esque numbers, but you get the idea).

I went on a factory tour around the start of the S-Types life and Jaguar proudly told us this fact. It saves money, they said. I said 'yes, but it is a Jaguar not a cost cutting exercise'.

The X-Type is built to lesser standards. That is it. And this fact (more than the front wheel drive, the small engine, the diesel and the estate) means it isn't a proper Jaguar.

It seems that some things don't change. re: Italian and Japanese cars - as mentioned above. Well maybe it has changed for the Germans.

Dave Brand · 10 Nov 2003, 18:47 (Ref:779078)

Quote:

Originally posted by garcon
For reliability, customer service and the whole ownership picture, it seems you still can't beat the Japs!

I've never yet seen a Japanese car in my price range that I've considered remotely interesting; I'd rather have a Peugeot!

garcon · 10 Nov 2003, 19:22 (Ref:779103)

If "interesting" means bits of trim that fall off after a matter of weeks (or days if you have kids), door hinges that drop after a matter of months and random electrical gremlins from day 1, I guess you're right!

**touringlegend** · 10 Nov 2003, 21:35 (Ref:779215)

Ah a nice Ford owned company at the very top...makes me proud to drive a Ford...

According to last nights TG, apparently the worst VW Golf to have is the VW Golf - every other VAG derivative is better - notably the Skoda Octavia.

11 Nov 2003, 16:21 (Ref:779995)

I used to run an Alfa GTV.

Granted it had reliability issues, but they were always more irritants than ball breakers. The electrics were the main bug bear, but the important bits like the starter and lights always worked....

....just sticking windows, jammed open sunroofs, non-operational dashboards. None of which you'll give a monkeys about when you're on a nice twisty road.

Why on earth I traded it in for a MG ZS I don't know (the squeakiest car known to man)!

11 Nov 2003, 16:23 (Ref:780000)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore

The X-Type is built to lesser standards

...by the same Scouse scallys that (badly) built the Escort!

garcon · 12 Nov 2003, 12:10 (Ref:780921)

The thing that really puzzles me about the X-Type though is this...

Is it a Jaguford or a Faguar ??

**Adam43** · 12 Nov 2003, 13:58 (Ref:781044)

I several suggestions, but none would be polite to mention.

However taking your point garcon I think it is a plain and simple Ford.

TimD · 12 Nov 2003, 14:27 (Ref:781065)

Nice to drive though. I had the chance to play with an X-Type 3 litre Sport when they first came out. If I had a single criticism of it, it was that it needed excessive feathering of the throttle as it leaped forward at the slightest take-up of drive.

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