Donington Park - Project GP 2010

[Al Weyman]

Personally I think the use of helecopters for personal travel whoever you are must be the most ungreen thing you could imagine, they fly over my house a lot and its like a vietnam evacuation when the GP is on, good riddance I say, noisy things.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Barry Pomfret

I was sitting at Abbey for the GP at Silverstone and counted 85 parked up helicoptors at one point in the day, where are Donington going to manage a similiar number of machines or are the occupants also going to be herded into buses from elsewhere?

85 helicopters parked at East Midlands Airport won't even make a dent in the normal aircraft parking area. Integrating helo traffic into the normal fixed wing traffic pattern will be a bit of a challenge but it can be done. (Royal Navy air traffic controllers used to do it all the time at Yeovilton and Culdrose Naval Air Stations). Its a myth to think that EMA is incredibly busy, too busy for one days worth of GP aircraft activity to not disrupt things. EMA does have many, many minutes between normal aircraft landings & take offs and therefore has slots for additional traffic. The EMA controllers will have to be fully involved in the planning but I would suggest that its probably far easier and safer to plan air traffic in to and out of a full time commercial airport than it is to have a temporary "airport" & facilities at Silverstone once a year.

I would also hazard a guess that actually far more people will fly in in fixed wing corporate aircraft than helos anyway, because they can! Helos are the most popular form of corporate air transport at Silverstone because it's the only option!

[Robin_D]

Ladies and Gents,

Just a quick note to say that I have sifted through the thread and have kept all of the useful information.

If we could stick to the topic in hand, which is will donington be ready for the GP? And if so how will they cope with the increased traffic on roads, as well as the closure of the airport.

[andy97]

Robin. Tell me why the airport has to close during the GP, it doesn't for any other meeting now, and as I said above, EMA is not as busy (by airport standards) as is widely believed.

[Robin_D]

It seems busy enough, and for the 2 or more helicopters to film the GP like they currently have at Silverstone you would have to temporarily close the airport for a good 2 hours if not longer.

[stroller]

Originally Posted by andy97

Robin. Tell me why the airport has to close during the GP, it doesn't for any other meeting now, and as I said above, EMA is not as busy (by airport standards) as is widely believed.

I think the assumption is from one of the earlier statements (from DVLL?) that the Airport could close for the duration of the GP

Take on board the point about not being a busy Airport, but I think the comment was made (earlier in this thread) that due to the increase in traffic around the Circuit/Airport wouldn't this lead to unacceptable delays to the "man in the street & his family" trying to access the Airport, as happens now with any race meetings or events of significance.

I know a lot was said about re-arranging flight times etc around the dates but as was also pointed out, Airlines guard their slots quite jealously and are loath to make changes if it upsets their operational schedules.

Also with the supposed "no go" zone around the circuit for vehicular traffic -how would this fit in with the general public who just want to drive to the Airport, catch their plane and fly away on holiday ?? Can't see them putting up with Airport only routes. Many of the roads will need at be as clear as possible for the fleet of buses bringing spectators in.

[andy97]

Believe me, its not mega busy (I live there and is probably busier through the night than during the day). They use helos for filming at some events already and yet the airport doe not close. They also easily cope with displays by Spitfires, Red Arrows etc & this is achieved by slotting these in between movements. The film helos will have to move in an out to accomodate the fixed wing movements but ATC will be able to cope with that.

[Al Weyman]

I must say there is not that many take offs during the day when I have been up there racing.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by andy97

Believe me, its not mega busy (I live there and is probably busier through the night than during the day). They use helos for filming at some events already and yet the airport doe not close. They also easily cope with displays by Spitfires, Red Arrows etc & this is achieved by slotting these in between movements. The film helos will have to move in an out to accomodate the fixed wing movements but ATC will be able to cope with that.

Very true, and possibly even fewer demands for daytime slots if the recession continues and people stop flying off on holiday.

There are quite a lot of private flights by light aircraft - presumably some are for training purposes - and a few helicopters but they would be easy to manage for a few days. Busiest seems to be the Air Ambulance - keeps popping in and out. I often wonder what it is doing.

Passenger access to the airport should be manageable on way or another since there are options that don't require use of the main entrance BUT woth the long term parking arrangements as they currently are - both airpport and off airport parking are at the track end, with the off-airport facility being within the park perimeter - there are certainly some things that need to be considered.

Of course the chopper shots of the GP may be restricted by weather conditions anyway. Yet another variable in the mix.

At the WSR events they were easily able to fit in flying displays by a very slow moving bi-plane, each display about taking 10 minutes or so (more if you included its on the ground and take-off time from the airport.) Iirc it flew at least twice a day on both Saturday and Sunday.

I think there is a good chance that the fixed-wing traffic realted to the GP could be a more challenging subject. No doubt people will all want to arrive at the same time. Perhaps there will need to be some sort of lottery (or variable rate landing fees) for different landing and departure times. Bragging rights for those who pay the most for the prime slots.

[Frailloop]

Earth-moving machines spent the day moving earth!

And you can drive a very large digger thro the tunnel.

And after lots of rain the track did not flood between Mcleans and Coppice.

Tunnel did not flood either.

[terence]

I thought the original concerns regarding Air craft were the weather data and radio communications.Were there some doubt's as to interference with East Midlands ground/air radio.? Some photos of any work that IS ongoing would be good though.

[Robin_D]

I imagine we will get some photos this weekend with F3/GT's there Terry.

[terence]

It really would be handy to see for ourselves.I shall be there next month with Masters,if I get time,I could always taken some shots as a progress up-date.

[Robin_D]

Would be good if you could as supposedly the main work is starting on August 1st.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Robin_D

Would be good if you could as supposedly the main work is starting on August 1st.

I hope not! We're meant to be racing (Club FF1600) there that day to replace the round cancelled when Coppice / McCleans was flooded....

I'll report back.

[Robin_D]

Well around then anyway

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I hope not! We're meant to be racing (Club FF1600) there that day to replace the round cancelled when Coppice / McCleans was flooded....

I'll report back.

I think you will find that the majority of the infield will once again be closed off once the MotoGP is out of the way. This will allow the main work to start.

There seem to be track activities booked well into September so presumably the track will have little or no disruption until at least then. Current paddock and pits are not part of the plan other than the hospitality suites (as far as I can tell) and I would imagine it is unlikely that the plan requires those to be pulled down as a first day activity ... but then you never know.

I guess siome mud and snow tyres and rasining the suspension might be a precaution .... but unlikely to improve lap times.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Just arrived back from the Saturday part of the Superleague meeting where FF1600's were due to race this afternoon to replace the round cancelled by the track collapsing by the new tunnel earlier this year.

Guess what?

It rained a little today, wet qualifying but nothing too bad. Nowhere near as bad as last time Then after lunch a couple of heavy showers during which the Superleague and Historic F1 guys stayed firmly in their pits. Then a Superkart race and then......

Meeting abandoned by the CoC due to saftety reasons, subsidence between Coppice and McCleans. A rather large hole had appeared at the edge of the track. Exactly what we were promised could not happen again as it was previously caused by "damage to a drainage pipe".

In my view the MSA should revoke the Donington license immediately until such time as Tom Wheatcroft has a lessee with the necessary competence to run the place safely.

I and many others have now lost significant sums of money due to this miserable enterprise.

Anybody considering investing in this project would be well advised to think again.

[Al Weyman]

Bloody Hell that sounds ominous.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Ominous indeed.

Thinking about this again I really don't see what option the MSA or FIA have other than to withdraw the track licence pending a proper and comprehensive review of safety at Donington.

Should a tragedy occur, either this afternoon or at a future date, that might be even remotely linked to this issue, then I believe their insurers will become rather interested in this thread.

[chezza]

I heard they were planning on over night repairs to then run the rest of the meeting today.

Its getting stupid though, they can't keep having this happen every time it rains.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by chezza

I heard they were planning on over night repairs to then run the rest of the meeting today.

In the absence of any other investors they are redeveloping their track using our money. At the same time as risking our lives

The authorities need to step in now before it's too late.

[terence]

I would have thought that ALL that is needed is to get the sub-structure right,sounds as though there is too much top-soil on the track edge.
Obviously a very simple fix so really no need to panic.

[mwg]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I would have thought that ALL that is needed is to get the sub-structure right,sounds as though there is too much top-soil on the track edge.
Obviously a very simple fix so really no need to panic.

A fix so simple, that's why it was rectified in June after it happened the first time. Wait, it wasn't...

It's not the top soil that worries me - it's the people who own it...

[terence]

Or more like, the people who are 'fixing' it.Possibly the best course of action is to get in touch with with the Organising Club and request the entry fee being returned.They will then get in touch with the owners -----------.


I dont understand why this particular problem should have happened yet again,it's not as if the track has been changed to something different.IF the contractors knew what they were doing,and after the first problem occured,you'd have thought they would have taken step's to stop it ever having the chance to re-occur.