Who had a better season in 1999, Dario Franchitti or Juan Montoya?

[Snrub]

You are aware that Michael did an interview with CART.com last year where he was asked who he thought some great drivers were. He elaborated on how he though Montoya was a great driver and he respected him more because he's one of the few guys he could drive within inches of for many laps and feel safe. If you'd like I'll try to dig it up.

I find your concern over Andretti puzzling since you brought up Zanardi right afterwards. Zanardi was chronically wreckless during his first stint in CART. At Elkhart he very nearly killed Andretti by sending him cartwheeling off the track. If Andretti had hit anything he would be dead today.

I have to admit that I'd take Ashley over a top F1 seat. Then again Connie is not exactly hard on the eyes...

[GT-Vixen]

MS isn't Eddie Irvine, he doesn't go around bad mouthing other drivers, ever. No need to dig it up, I believe you.

Being wreckless is much different to doing something purposely, don't you think? Therefore your point about At Elkhart is meaningless. Then I guess Alex should be dead too?

Ashley is a big feminist, are you sure you could even handle a chick like that...lol!

[Hazza]

Didn't Zanardi (with an A, not an I) race under a suspended ban during his one of his Championship years for reckless driving?

But as for calling JPM reckless, etc, thoose things are what makes thoose drivers human. Just look at Senna.

[The Treester]

Look, JPM won races and poles because of his talent and 'CGR', point blank! Dario had Team Green, give me a break(jac was an exception)! Let's see-Now, CGR 3+ major series teams, Team Green, big fat donut! Anybody and everybody that hopped in a CGR car had a chance to win not only the race but the championship! Memo, Scott, Alex, Jimmy, Juan, Bruno, etc...

Dario accidents with PT as a teammate, let's get real again, it was all PT baby. Amazing how losing weight, switching teams and a weak talent field can help you win a championship.

Let's see, CG and Sir Williams, F3000 connection. It's amazing what connections can do for a driver! If JPM was all that back then he should of jump straight from F3000 to F1, like others had! Once again watch tapes of him in F3000; I can try to dig them up if you like to see them.

By the way, as a pro crew member, we prefer a driver that would bring the car back in one piece rather than taken people out nose diving on them. All night-ers are NOT fun; especially b/c of a reckless driver! Any driver can push the envelope; it's all about staying in it! It's the Engineer job to get them that set-up, a la Mo Nunn!

By the way, again, MS wreck JV intentionally instead of being naturally reckless like others!

I like JPM as a driver...now! but Dario had to work for it like MS in his earlier championships! And no Dario now would not fair well in F1 now. His timing of being in the right place at the right time was off!



I need my caffine!



Got to go!

[BootsOntheSide]

In CART, since 1995, Green ran Villenueve, Johnstone, Tracy, Franchitti and Andretti for any length of time. 4 out of 5 won multiple races for them.

Ganassi ran Vasser, Herta, Zanardi, Montoya, Junquiera, Gidely, Brack and Dixon for any length of time. 5 out of 8 won multiple races, and that's without counting Minassian. Which do you think was the stronger CART team?

Assuming that Wirdheim doesn't get one of the Jordan seats (which looks unlikely), only 1 of the 8 F3000 champions since 1996 has gone straight into Formula 1, and that was with a weak team (Heidfeld at Prost). Muller never got a chance, and Junquiera and Bourdais have yet to. Montoya's F3000 season was a record-breaker at the time, so there's nothing more he could've done to instantly earn an F1 drive.

As for 'connections', Montoya earnt his testing role with Williams from his impressive F3000 rookie seasn in 1997. When he first started racing, he had to slog it out on a shoestring, coming from a country with little racing history. Dario meanwhile was able to play off his Italian heritage, even shamelessly racing #27 in CART, as well as using his Britishness to earn a Jagaur test, in which he flunked badly.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Treester
If JPM was all that back then he should of jump straight from F3000 to F1,

That was not his decision to make, that was Sir Franks.

[Mr V]

BTW, anybody got the interview with Zanardi (in an autosport i believe it was) where he watched Montoya's first CART test?

He was blown away. (Unfortunatly for me, i've thrown the magazine away)

[The Treester]

BootsOntheSide,

Thanks for the more thorough version, European knowledge of F3000, of JMP. I only went by what speedvison, at the time, was televising and what I saw was a 'gung ho' JPM, nose diving everyone every lap every race, just a little bit exaggerating! I thought, at the time it was cool how he intimidated his competitors with his style, but i was ignorant of what racing was all about.

The sir Williams decisions, all politics, the same as the corporate world we work in. JPM needed more discipline/experience before he could race F1. Hummmm, Jenson.....came from F3, right-not sure, under F3000, right-not sure, more mature, better talent for his age?!?!?! Not sure! Wha cha thank Mr. V? Before you get it twisted I'm not saying he's better than JPM, geeezzz!!!!!

Once again CGR has more champion drivers than Green, thank ya! If you new anything about being on a championship team, i have, it's more than just the driver. Rare cases its all driver when it comes to a championship!

Were missing the point again guys, i didn't say JPM sucked then or now, just said that Dario WAS a better driver '99! We all know who the better driver is NOW!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Treester
The sir Williams decisions, all politics, the same as the corporate world we work in. JPM needed more discipline/experience before he could race F1. Hummmm, Jenson.....came from F3, right-not sure, under F3000, right-not sure, more mature, better talent for his age?!?!?! Not sure! Wha cha thank Mr. V? Before you get it twisted I'm not saying he's better than JPM, geeezzz!!!!!

In 1998, it was thought that JPM would have a race seat for 1999, then the team decided on Alex. (not entirely sure of the reason, i'll have to look it up )

As for the Jenson decision. The Williams/Alex debacle went on so long that it was too late to pull back JPM from Ganassi, plus Chip did have a contract on him. Whoever got the seat out of Jenson or Bruno, it would have been a stop-gap for the 2000 season as we saw.

Btw, i didn't think that you were saying that Jenson was better than JPM, after all, JPM was CART champion, and later the be Indy 500 winner (although we did not know that at the beginning of 2000), Jenson was an up and coming out-standing prospect, but not as good as JPM.

[The Treester]

I agree with you except for the talent comparison of Jenson and Juan.

I think Jenson at that age was furthur along than Juan, not the year as of calendar but the age of the driver. Once again I don't follow racing across the atlantic that much! Only Proto'z!

Mr. V, do u think JPM would of won as much in, let us say Pac West, or Hogan teamed with Dario? or better yet paired with PT! Can you imagine them taking each other out every race weeked?!?!?!



da question is just for u b/c others r stuck on up nationalities.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Treester

Mr. V, do u think JPM would of won as much in, let us say Pac West, or Hogan teamed with Dario? or better yet paired with PT! Can you imagine them taking each other out every race weeked?!?!?!

Well, that would be hearsay because it never happened, so we just don't know, however, whatever car he was driving, i believe he would have beaten Dario that season.

As for JPM and PT taking one another out each weekend, it might have happened once (as team-mates) and that would have been it

[Snrub]

Dario had a couple of collisions with PT where it was completely one sided (eg. Houston), but there were something like 6 total. Most of those Dario was atleast partially to blame. A couple times slightly more to blame than PT.

JPM was agressive in CART, but he wasn't a dirty driving who screwed up the car all of the time. Frankly I don't know where these comments are comming from, they don't have much basis on what actually happened in '99. I cannot comment on how he drove in F3000 and I don't see the relavence to 1999.

I don't see any evidence that Ganassi was a far superior team than Green in '99. As for a historical comparison Green had some consistancy problems after taking on the third car. If you look at the overall top form performances after Dario and PT joined the team and even after Michael it is quiet impressive.

[The Treester]

snrub,

whateva! I'll chat with my buddy that was part of CART then and knows PT personally and I'll get the facts, not a fan opinion!

CGR, '96-'99, point taken!

ur taken this way to personal, it's just opinions! I rather discuss this with Mr V instead, I have planes to design, peace out!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Treester
I rather discuss this with Mr V instead,

Aren't i the lucky one

[Snrub]

I'm not taking it personally it's just that the Dario comments strike me as a weird thing to say. It's like today at work, one guy was saying there was a good chance the moonlanding was faked. Nothing personal, but I get a little rilled up about that kind of thing.

The only part I'm taking personally is the last comment about "not talking to a fan", like I'm some sort of nutjob. Rather than talk to you I should go talk to a guy I know who was a substantial part of Ganassi through the championship years and actually worked with JPM.

A. I rarely care about an individual driver's results. When I do it's not from your typical 'fan' angle. I never cheer for the driver who is the front runner. In '99 I was routing for Dario because I thought it would be more interesting if he did well.
B. As under the same reasoning, I rarely cheered for PT. RA when he came from the back I routed for him. I was very critical of him most of the time. The easy opinion on the collisions with Dario was that it was PT up to his usual tricks. Watching the replys at the time it wasn't always 100% his fault. I fail to see what that has to do with being a 'fan'.

[macdaddy]

Good post, Snrub.

[The Treester]

Cheers to Mr. V and the non bias posters! J/K


Off the subject, what's the best way to get to "Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant". I can use some assistance from my Canadian posters. If all possible by plane! Thanks in advance!




I take it Mosport is best by flying into Toronto?

[Snrub]

Yes Mosport is about an hour drive from the Pearson Airport in Toronto. It's easy to get to. Essentially you take the 401 east, turn north after a while and you're there!

[The Treester]

Thanks Snrub, no lost luv, if ya there for the ALMS race maybe when can grab a brewskee on me?!?!?! By the way, how long is the drive from the aiport?



What about Le Circuit Mont-Tremblent?

[paulzinho]

I was supporting Dario like crazy that season but Montoya was sensational, for a man with no US racing experience to come in and do what he did was sensational.

[Gt_R]

Both are great boys really. Why are each sides trying to slag another driver?

But the fact that Montoya came to F1 and is doing pretty well, it does show that he had an edge over Dario.

And i believe that JPM's better in 99. The points may be the same, but JPM pushed out more wins and hence it meant something... it's the same as F1 last season, the points are close, but MS had 6 wins to other's 1 or 2.

[Snrub]

That's cool, I'm not upset. I completely respect Dario and I'm not trying to slag him. The drive from the Airport is probably about 1-1.5 hours. I haven't really timed it and it varies a lot as the 401 through TO is the second busiest highway in North America. Don't know for Mount-Tremblent.

[ElScOrChO]

Well for Mont-Tremblant, when you get out of airport, you take 401 east until you get in montreal. It takes around 6h30 (depending how heavy is your right foot )then you take autoroute 15 north until St-Jovite. Its another hour and a half and the track is near there.

[The Treester]

Thanks again Snrub and thanks ElScOrChO, but I'll definietly fly into Montreal for the Mount-Tremblent race.


I don't think either side was trying to slag the drivers. We all know who is having the better career! Personally in '99, it was all about car #99... R.I.P.!