Montoya/Schumacher incident

[garcon]

Stephenw, I'm as big a Schumacher and Ferrari fan as anyone here, but I really can't blame JPM for this incident. Michael overdid it trying to get some heat into brakes & tyres, which was a bit dim of him in the tunnel (nice pun eh? dim ), JPM was a bit close - knowing that the safety car was going in - and got caught out. JPM took evasive action, but Michael was already sliding and there just wasn't room.

I think Mr V is merely suggesting that having a pop at JPM might be a favourite pastime of yours?

[hgmonaro]

not haven driven at Monaco (although I have sat on the grid... see attached pic!!!) I have no idea what the normal restart procedure is... is it normal to warm the brakes in the tunnel? (maybe they normally blast though to clear the cobwebs out!) If yes, JPM is a knob, otherwise TGF is That's my analysis.

[KaiserSose]

Ok, OK.........a little harsh for a first post from me there, but you have to admit it's kind of amusing that the driving of a world champion is critiqued so much. Same with JPM's driving for that matter.

These guys are in a pressure cooker all race weekend. Add to that racing on the streets of Monaco, and you could see why mistakes get made. Every top driver has cracked under the pressure before, even the late Senna who seems to be beyond reproach on this forum. What, don't you remember him tossing it away at the tunnel entrance having already lapped almost the entire field?

I've been reading this forum long enough to know how it "works", I just have always found it funny how the hatred for MS and JPM from various camps boils over after races. I'm not surprised though, I used to shout at the TV when Prost was racing against that weasel Senna.

It's all good, though. You know it was an exciting race when the threads go pages long about the events that took place. F1 is in obvious need of races like that, as opposed to some of the yawners we've seen recently.

[dangeradam]

if you look at the broken bits on MS's car Juan must have nearly been past him when they hit. I think all fans should be greatful that neither driver was hurt as had Juan hit the back of him at whatever speed it was it would have been very ugly.

[Gaz170]

Looked like an everyday motorway crash to me. Both drivers must be feeling a little silly about the whole thing.

[Stephenw]

Originally posted by garcon
Stephenw, I'm as big a Schumacher and Ferrari fan as anyone here, but I really can't blame JPM for this incident. Michael overdid it trying to get some heat into brakes & tyres, which was a bit dim of him in the tunnel (nice pun eh? dim ), JPM was a bit close - knowing that the safety car was going in - and got caught out. JPM took evasive action, but Michael was already sliding and there just wasn't room.

I think Mr V is merely suggesting that having a pop at JPM might be a favourite pastime of yours?

Fine I wont be back.

[GTV27]

Am I missing something here, but isn't that Michael could crash his car while following the SAFETY car inexcusable?

(and yes, I am attributing FULL BLAME to Michael - the Safety car didn't slow, Juan took what appeared to be all humanly possible avoiding action).

Isn't the point of the SAFETY car to allow the field to circulate in a SAFE manner and allow the circuit workers to clear obstructions (ie waved yellows apply for the entire lap).

For somebody of his experience to do something so dangerous during this time (and at that place) is reprehensiable and surely should result in a reprimand from the FIA.

Putting it another way, what if some rookie had of done the same thing - would he retain his superlicense?

[senna12]

I also do not think JP is to blame. Michael could not have picked a worse place to try to generate some heat. A little brain fart on his part today. He's only human.

[GTV27]

Originally posted by senna12
A little brain fart on his part today.

oh, that must smell really bad inside the helmet - I can see why he was distracted then (could explain why he threw the helmet away too)

[300kph]

Two brothers at same point...what a particular day of racing.

[Super Tourer]

It was a mistake simple as that, but at Monaco there is NO margin for error, what maybe a simple 'off' or slide at any other track is an accident and retirement here.

MS wasn't under any direct pressure, in that JPM was a lap down, but I think he was under pressure to put in some fast laps in the hope that Ross Brawn's strategy would unwind, maybe he was focused on that as we know that one of the keys to Ferrari success is Schumachers ability to put in very fast laps at critical periods.

In the preview we mentioned the wisdom of trying to get a strategy to unwind at Monaco, due to traffic, etc and here was an example of it.

[Pingguest]

It was Montoya's fault. Schumacher accelerated and broke many times before to warm up his tyres. Trulli saw that, and kept distance. Montoya didn't, so he was sleeping.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Gaz170
Both drivers must be feeling a little silly about the whole thing.

yes, I agree with this.

[Rossi # 46]

Originally posted by Pingguest
It was Montoya's fault. Schumacher accelerated and broke many times before to warm up his tyres. Trulli saw that, and kept distance. Montoya didn't, so he was sleeping.

But did Michael lock up his brakes on the other occassions?(providing there were other occassions as you say, I am yet to see proof of this)

And there is no point saying he did not lock up his brakes as why else would he have veered to the wall and consequently, stopping Montoya from avoiding the collision by going around the outside.

[Red]

Well, it doesn't really matter, Montoya shouldn't be that close behind anyway. Schumacher did a mistake, but if Montoya wasn't 5 meters behind him all would end with a little bit of embarrassment and that's it. Many said that Schumacher made a mistake heating the tyres and brakes in the tunnel and that is true, but how stupid was of Montoya following so close and doing precisely the same?

Anyway, here's what Trulli saw and he was just behind them:

Basically, to be honest, what I try to do is keep away from the guy in front of me and have a couple of cars’ distance. But Montoya was not doing it, but on the other hand Michael was obviously trying to warm up the tyres. It is difficult to say who was at fault, it really just happened, and I tried to keep away from this incident. I saw that something was going on because they were so close, going really fast down to the Mirabeau, and, in the end, it has happened in the tunnel. And, you know, it was something that I thought ‘oh, maybe they are going to crash’ and they did.

It was not Schumacher to worry of keeping distance from the car behind him, it was Montoya's.

Oh yes, and this one:

Well, to be honest, it is so difficult to comment. I just saw both of them accelerating and warming their tyres up and locking both tyres. I think they were just trying to warm the tyres up and they just didn’t get it right and while Schumacher was slowing down Montoya was accelerating

[josvandeperre]

God bless Grandprix.com telling it like it is :

when Michael Schumacher's Ferrari appeared from the Monte Carlo tunnel having been punched firmly on the nose, the Media Centre raised a spontaneous cheer, a sign perhaps that Ferrari has done everything right in F1 in recent years, except to win hearts and minds

[Adam43]

That sounds slightly churlish of the journo's, but I think Ferrari should take it as a compliment in many ways.

[Pingguest]

Originally posted by Rossi # 46
But did Michael lock up his brakes on the other occassions?(providing there were other occassions as you say, I am yet to see proof of this)

And there is no point saying he did not lock up his brakes as why else would he have veered to the wall and consequently, stopping Montoya from avoiding the collision by going around the outside.

Trulli's view on the incident:

Q: (Michael Schmidt – Auto Motor und Sport) Jarno, in the procedure behind the safety car of warming up the brakes and the tyres, how difficult is it for the guy behind to anticipate what the guy in front is doing? How dangerous is it?

JT: Basically, to be honest, what I try to do is keep away from the guy in front of me and have a couple of cars’ distance. But Montoya was not doing it, but on the other hand Michael was obviously trying to warm up the tyres. It is difficult to say who was at fault, it really just happened, and I tried to keep away from this incident. I saw that something was going on because they were so close, going really fast down to the Mirabeau, and, in the end, it has happened in the tunnel. And, you know, it was something that I thought ‘oh, maybe they are going to crash’ and they did.

JB: The problem is, to me it seems, that especially on a circuit like this we are using a lot of brakes, more than before because the tyres are getting softer and softer and you have got more downforce. You are using your brakes a lot more than you were in the past so we are having to run harder material and to warm the brakes up is so difficult, it really is. I have really struggled with that all weekend.

[Pingguest]

Montoya must have seen that Michael was acclerating very hard, so should have known that Michael was going to brake very hard too.

[Adam43]

Pigguest, I love your bolding. Here is the same quote:

JT: Basically, to be honest, what I try to do is keep away from the guy in front of me and have a couple of cars’ distance. But Montoya was not doing it, but on the other hand Michael was obviously trying to warm up the tyres. It is difficult to say who was at fault, it really just happened, and I tried to keep away from this incident. I saw that something was going on because they were so close, going really fast down to the Mirabeau, and, in the end, it has happened in the tunnel. And, you know, it was something that I thought ‘oh, maybe they are going to crash’ and they did.

so in highlighting those sentences I think you have put a different emphasis on what was said. Above is my highlighted part to make it sound like what I think!

All a bit silly really, as Gaz said.

[cos]

Originally posted by dangeradam
if you look at the broken bits on MS's car Juan must have nearly been past him when they hit. I think all fans should be greatful that neither driver was hurt as had Juan hit the back of him at whatever speed it was it would have been very ugly.

No - JPM's right front made contact with MS's right side. MS bounced off a couple of barriers


Schumi's response:

Today, I don't think I could have really challenged him, but nevertheless when the accident with Montoya happened I was leading the race. So the situation is that the race leader was knocked out of the race after being hit by a back marker. I am sure there was no deliberate intention on his part and I accept the Steward's decision. I was accelerating and braking just as we do when we go to the grid and in the standard way when running behind the Safety Car. The tunnel was not even the first place I had done it as I had used the same procedure earlier in the lap. A bit of smoke off the wheels is quite normal in these situations as you try to get heat into the front tyres and the brakes. After not the most successful weekend for us, I am really looking forward to next weekend when we will already be at the Nurburgring for one of my home races.'

and Montoya says

With regards to the contact with Michael in the tunnel, Michael braked very hard as he was warming up his brakes and I moved to the right side of the track to avoid him but the gap narrowed and we touched."

[BootsOntheSide]

I can't understans why Michael was accelerating and braking so hard in the tunnel, considering that there was still half a lap left to warm up his tyres and brakes. He couldn't afford to lock up his tyres, because he needed them to be right in order to break away enough to get a 20+-second lead on Trulli and Button.

It was a hazardous move, and it didn't look like JPM was any closer to Michael than Trulli was to him. Montoya went practically into the barriers on the opposite side in the attempt to avoid Michael's car, but it still wasn't enough. I'd lay the blame with Michael for this one.

An aspect of this that no-one appears to ahve considered, though, is that, when Michael went out it made Trulli the leader, which meant that Montoya was no longer a lap down,a dn would've been able to drive as fast as he could to get clsoer to the back of the pack? Has he inadvertantly discovered a loophole that other drivers can use to get a lap back?

[Adam43]

It seems to me that MS and JPM are being pretty reasonable about it.

[gomick]

cant really remember seeing drivers lock up there brakes like that when behind a pacecar - is michael for real

[cos]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Has he inadvertantly discovered a loophole that other drivers can use to get a lap back?

Interesting - if a driver is a lap down is he allowed to overtake a car a lap ahead of him? A quick flick through the FIA's sporting regulations says nothing (but then I couldn't find anything about blue flags in there either :confused: )