Montoya/Schumacher incident

Phoenix1 · 23 May 2004, 22:52 (Ref:980510)

Having watch the race and listened to what was said you can see in the video that MS tries to warm his tires and as is perfectly normal JPM made sure there was not a big gap between him and MS. When MS locked his wheels he slide to the right and JPM could not brake fast enough to go round. You will note that JPM DOES move to the right more as MS slides over. I also add further to my argument it was a racing incident that the safety car slowed down in the tunnel, this I believe through MS and caused the lock up. I am not a fan of MS but this was a racing incident. I would say though that having had RS and FA incident moments earlier you might think drivers would be more sensible.

Jordi · 23 May 2004, 22:53 (Ref:980511)

I don't think it was his fault, but thank God Juan touched Michael, unintentionally. Please allow some fun in F1!

alesi95 · 23 May 2004, 22:56 (Ref:980515)

Why on earth did Michael lock up?

Surely doing this flat spots your tyres and makes a difficult race like Monaco unbearable. To call this "warming my tyres" is a little coy.

Phoenix1 · 23 May 2004, 23:00 (Ref:980521)

Quote:

Originally posted by alesi95
Why on earth did Michael lock up?

Surely doing this flat spots your tyres and makes a difficult race like Monaco unbearable. To call this "warming my tyres" is a little coy.

Made a mistake, the idea is to heavy brake not over brake. I suspect due to Alonso and Ralf both being offline in the tunnel there was some marbles on the line.

**Spudgun** · 23 May 2004, 23:01 (Ref:980523)

He was trying to warm his brakes by stamping on the anchors, more than his tyres anyway.. When they are relatively cold, that's what they do, lock. MS got caught out. It was an unfortunate incident in the wrong place.

Jordi · 23 May 2004, 23:02 (Ref:980527)

I agree on that. If he's a 6-time World Champion he should be able to hot up his brakes without locking the tyres up, just at the limit.
But he did that in Monza 2000 too, not locking up but slowing up the field. What can he achieve with that?
Surely if you press your brakes repeatedly they'll hot up as well, instead of just doing one huge lock-up?

dangeradam · 23 May 2004, 23:03 (Ref:980528)

50:50 he slammed on the brakes and turned in shutting any extra room out that Juan may have been able to run into Juan should have been more aware and Michael should have been more predictable in his actions and left Juan some room.

Mark Stevens · 23 May 2004, 23:06 (Ref:980531)

Until we see some onboard footage from either Schumacher or Montoya's car I will reserve judgement on exactly what happened.

Back in the days of F1 Digital TV all of the onboard views were available to viewers.

If I remember correctly the F1 Safety Car has a rear facing camera mounted on or near its lightbar, (well it did once), I would love to see that tape.

**Spudgun** · 23 May 2004, 23:09 (Ref:980533)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Stevens
Until we see some onboard footage from either Schumacher or Montoya's car I will reserve judgement on exactly what happened.

Back in the days of F1 Digital TV all of the onboard views were available to viewers.

If I remember correctly the F1 Safety Car has a rear facing camera mounted on or near its lightbar, (well it did once), I would love to see that tape.

The problem is that the video feeds are picked up by a helicopter overhead.

IIRC I've never seen an onboard shot through the tunnel since the signal can't get through.

alesi95 · 23 May 2004, 23:12 (Ref:980536)

Quote:

Originally posted by Spudgun
He was trying to warm his brakes by stamping on the anchors, more than his tyres anyway.. When they are relatively cold, that's what they do, lock. MS got caught out. It was an unfortunate incident in the wrong place.

What "irks" me is that Schumacher has refused to admit that he has made a mistake. (At least i didn't hear it.)

KaiserSose · 23 May 2004, 23:12 (Ref:980537)

It's nice when all the expert drivers here will take the time to point out all the faults in MS's driving.

I'm sure he's thankful for such a useful resource........you know, criticism from people who have reached the pinnacle of motorsport racing having never made a chump move.

I wouldn't say either driver exceeded their mental capacity with their driving today.

alesi95 · 23 May 2004, 23:17 (Ref:980541)

I wouldn't say either driver exceeded their mental capacity with their driving today.

Thats really the "bottom line", "final word" and the "moral of the story" today.....

....least neither of them is Ralf.

Mark Stevens · 23 May 2004, 23:18 (Ref:980542)

I saw some onboard footage once in the tunnel,
but it was a film camera stuck to the side of an F1 car in the 1970's shown on a Motors TV programme.

Maybe they should install another camera in the tunnel to cover the area between the existing cameras inside and just outside the tunnel where all the action happened.

**Adam43** · 23 May 2004, 23:22 (Ref:980544)

I am amazed that we have managed to get to any reasonable discussion on this after that start - which was blantant flame.

Well done to the members of ten-tenths.

This is a great place discuss these incidents.

I actually dreaded coming here after seeing that and at first I thought my fears were correct, but I was wrong, most left the pointlessness behind and posted their considered views.

How a mix-up in the tunnel at Monaco proves that Montoya is arrogant I don't know.

**Spudgun** · 23 May 2004, 23:24 (Ref:980547)

Quote:

Originally posted by KaiserSose
It's nice when all the expert drivers here will take the time to point out all the faults in MS's driving.

I'm sure he's thankful for such a useful resource........you know, criticism from people who have reached the pinnacle of motorsport racing having never made a chump move.

I wouldn't say either driver exceeded their mental capacity with their driving today.

Since this is your first post on the forum, I will say welcome.

On the other hand, you shouldn't slag us all off since we are not F1 drivers.

Anyhow, we are not muppets. Those of us who are interested in this sport are very knowledgable of the sport.

As a fan of F1 for 20 years, although I'm not in the 'clique' pleae give the consideration that I and the members of this forum can safely indulge in educated speculation.

Please don't 'shoot us down' because we are not in the thick of the action. You don't have to be in F1 to be aware of the technology and their characteristics.

**Adam43** · 23 May 2004, 23:31 (Ref:980550)

Hey, while we are on this lets discuss it. Here is IMHO:

Michael was daft to start such violent acceleration and braking in the tunnel. It is erratic behaviour that is unpredictable to the guy behind. The tunnel is dark. It was clear he was going for it as he locked up while doing it!

Juan Pablo could have given Schumacher more room while he was doing these things. He did try his best to get out the way only really coming unstuck when Michael went right and squeezed JPM into the wall (MS was not really expecting that).

I think it was an unfortunate mix up that would have been OK and just close if it had happened anywhere else other than Monaco. Like Sato's engine blow the nature of this tight track exagerated the outcome. Due to it being Monaco maybe Sato should have been pulled in, maybe Michael should have been more careful with warming his car's components and maybe Montoya should have allowed him more room. It'd would have been alright at Silverstone.

However it was an unfortunate mix-up.

**Adam43** · 23 May 2004, 23:37 (Ref:980554)

KaiserSose, welcome

, but this is a discussion forum. We do have drivers present, but that is not the point.

We are here to discuss, if we rule out saying something because we don't current race in F1 then it would be a very quiet place.

Also, on the subject of inexperience, it is nice to have a comment from someone with 1 post* about how this place works.

* One post of 20,000 don't make a difference around here, but I couldn't resist the joke

gert · 23 May 2004, 23:40 (Ref:980556)

Nice conclusion, Adam!

(About the incident, I mean)

Try Hard · 23 May 2004, 23:44 (Ref:980558)

I'm with Adam and Spud here.
Having read both side of the story (form MS and Monty) as well as forming my own opinions, this is what i think can be said.

Schumi was again using "Questionable" tactics under the Safety Car, although he is fully in his right too.
The problem comes not because schumacher was braking hard, but more because before hand he was accelerating hard, as was Montoya. Ever tried reacting to car that suddenly brakes hard in front of you whilst your accelerating, think about what you'd do....
Monty could have been further back, and may he should have been wise to the possibility of this form shcu. However to say that montoya woudl do this on purpose and attempt to lay complete blame on him is crass. He tried to avoid the Schumacher, which at least means he was awake! If it had been completely his fault he'd have probably ended right up Schumis arse, not squashed against the wall...
And to say he tried to drive into schu when along side, please there was a bloody great wall there which he'd just touched.....

Anyway, I think we can say a number of things that should have happened, maybe now schu won't try it again for a while, whilst monty will probably sit further back. Then again probably not.

Oh and btw it wold have been very unlikely that Schumacher would have won that race, given that he had to make up so much time on Trulli and Button, and in not a lot of laps. That was Ferrari's mistake, hopefully there'll learn from there US conterparts, if you need a pitstop, bring the driver in ASAP under the SC, other wise you'll lose out in the long run. BAR and Renault got it right, Ferrari didn't (and sod the fuel window, just put the fuel in....)

Still, it can't take away from what was a fabulous Grand Prix, something the season needed.

Ed

Stephenw · 23 May 2004, 23:44 (Ref:980559)

Personally I think it's inexcusable for a car a lap down to take out the leader....no matter what 'mistake' MS supposedly made...Montoya was too close, and there is no excuse for him being along side the leader behind the safety car...

Mr V · 23 May 2004, 23:45 (Ref:980561)

Quote:

Originally posted by alesi95
What "irks" me is that Schumacher has refused to admit that he has made a mistake. (At least i didn't hear it.)

I have to say that i'm amazed that Michael hasn't said amything about the incident (that i know of). I'm with Martin Brundle on this when he said....

"If he's going to stamp on the brakes in the middle of the tunnel, he hasn't got anything he can say to Juan Pablo" (unless it's sorry of course

)

Mr V · 23 May 2004, 23:48 (Ref:980563)

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephenw
Personally I think it's inexcusable for a car a lap down to take out the leader....no matter what 'mistake' MS supposedly made...Montoya was too close, and there is no excuse for him being along side the leader behind the safety car...

Hi there Michael fan, i mean Stephen

The reason he was beside Michael was that Michael braked in the middle of the tunnel and JPM moved to avoid Michael.

Funny that you only seem to turn up when JPM and Michael have had an incident

**Adam43** · 24 May 2004, 00:15 (Ref:980595)

This thread has been shortened. All posts with offensive language or flame have been removed.

And this should come as no surprise to you all because you all read the rules when you signed up: http://tentenths.com/forum/misc.php?action=faq&s=

jj2728 · 24 May 2004, 00:25 (Ref:980605)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Hey, while we are on this lets discuss it. Here is IMHO:
Michael was daft to start such violent acceleration and braking in the tunnel. It is erratic behaviour that is unpredictable to the guy behind. The tunnel is dark. It was clear he was going for it as he locked up while doing it!
Juan Pablo could have given Schumacher more room while he was doing these things. He did try his best to get out the way only really coming unstuck when Michael went right and squeezed JPM into the wall (MS was not really expecting that).
I think it was an unfortunate mix up that would have been OK and just close if it had happened anywhere else other than Monaco. Like Sato's engine blow the nature of this tight track exagerated the outcome. Due to it being Monaco maybe Sato should have been pulled in, maybe Michael should have been more careful with warming his car's components and maybe Montoya should have allowed him more room. It'd would have been alright at Silverstone.
However it was an unfortunate mix-up.

valid points adam and i agree that the nature of the track exaggerated the outcome, almost anywhere else and we would'nt have had an incident....i don't know that michael could have won today, but he was mesmerizing in his attempt to make it close, setting fast lap after fast lap...and THAT exaggerates his daftness in the tunnel....oh well, next week its back to the emasculated nurburgring and back to the status quo i'm afraid....

Stephenw · 24 May 2004, 00:34 (Ref:980611)

funny how? Do you not want me to post on this board?

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