New Team Brock For 2004

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by MHDT
Right, and what exactly did Mr Borrett do for Brock in 1987? :confused:

I would arguably say that Mobil, Bridgestone, Brock's bank manager & Alan Gow were his biggest supporters in 1987...

I believe Brock wrote somewhere that the whole teams' personal credit card were maxxed by the time Bathurst came around.

Mr Borrett was instrumental in getting ADR approval for the HDT Commodores as Brock built them, in being one of the links between HDT and Holden in getting the 2 Group A HDT Commodores up and alive. Mr Borrett was pretty much carrying the pooper scooper to tidy up some of the less than practical approaches PB took to secondary car manufacturing back in the good old days...

[MHDT]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
I believe Brock wrote somewhere that the whole teams' personal credit card were maxxed by the time Bathurst came around.

Mr Borrett was instrumental in getting ADR approval for the HDT Commodores as Brock built them, in being one of the links between HDT and Holden in getting the 2 Group A HDT Commodores up and alive. Mr Borrett was pretty much carrying the pooper scooper to tidy up some of the less than practical approaches PB took to secondary car manufacturing back in the good old days...

Sure, that's all true; however Mr Borrett's role here was pre-1987, when the HDT was still supported by Holden, despite Mr Crennan's best efforts to pull the whole thing undone.

[Hobo high]

1 - What did Brock do to support HRT in 1992?

2 - In what way did Lowndes 'cop the same deal'? What do you mean by that?

Peter Brock's role in building HRT up to a premier team was not insignificant, but ought be kept in perspective.

Brock and HRT helped each other out at the end of 1993 - Brock got back into cars that had at least some chance of success, and HRT got sponshorship dollars.

Other than that, Brock was a driver, just like all the other people who piloted cars for HRT. His success was limited, but he did a good job, as did others.

Also, I don't think you can say that Brock was 'shafted' by HRT. He chose to resign. How is that being 'shafted'? [/B][/QUOTE]

Quested , am i right to assume you wrote that one sided account oF ALL THINGS HRT??? I haven't read it and nor would waste my time - no offence .To answer some of your questions - Brock had another year to go at HRT in 1997 , unfortunately skaife was chased hard for quite some time by gretch and co .Brock left because of the constant abuse he coped from key people at HRT, that still haboured a grudge against him , from the 1987 fallout.I accept your view on what role brock had in the team. I'am sure he would have wanted more OF A ROLE but was put in his place by one cretain that ran the show.He was not allowed to view lowndes car or ask about what development was being undertaken on that car. The fact is he was forced to run an old updated VN body untill 1996, in fact maybe the only time he was given a equivilant car was probaly bathurst 1997 when he steam rolled the opposition untill skaife stuffed it.(THATS MY OPINION on the motor ANYWAY). As for lowndes , he stopped dancing like a monkey , for the cretain , when he met his wife. Unfortunately at the same time skaife was brown nosing his way thru HRT and struck up a strong friendship with the cretain.Those two events shaped craigs final year at HRT. Skaife had lowndes engineer moved over to his car and the tables started to turn . Skaife was now number 1 in the team and Craig knew what it meant to play second fiddle to skaife - and we know how much bright enjoyed his back up role . Unfortunately lowndes wife did the deal with ford before brock and harrop could stitch their deal together to keep him in a holden team .I can go on and on ( even when CRETAIN SENT REPOSSERORS to brock house to take his HSV clubsport when he signed with volvo to run in the 2 litre series) and remember these accounts come straight from various sources , including the the brock camp and lowndes camp and BROCK OWNERS ASSOCIATION .Most people with common sence can put 1 and 1 together and see the real deal with HRT. Most people can make their minds up with the right information . Some just want to push fairy tales and unrealistic dream seqeunce's on all motorsport forums - under many names - the name dave rings a bell .I was a fan of HRT and HSV untill i started hearing these stories when craig was leaving HRT and then I started asking questions .It's amazing the people who contact you ,or that you run into at bathurst ,or in car clubs and the stories they tell ya . This isn't a complete dig against you , but theirs 2 sides to every story and i know first hand that certain people would like to have these sides of the arguement covered up and buried .So as TWR /HRT /HSV worked hard to bury BROCK and LOWNDES , i just love recalling these stories and version of events that where told to me by many various people , who are simply genuine holden supporters

[Quested]

Hobo high - it seems you have taken some fragments of truth from various sources, mixed in lashings of gossip, and cooked up the version of events that you have chosen to believe. I will not be so foolish as to try to discuss these things further with you because, as you say, there are two sides of the story, and it seems you have chosen which side to accept.

Yes - I did write that 'one sided' account of all things HRT, which you say you haven't read. If you have not read it, how can you say it is one sided? Once again, it seems you are forming an opinion without bothering to fully inform yourself.

Again, there are two sides to every story, but I don't think you can accuse HRT of trying to cover anything up. They encouraged me to talk to Brock and Lowndes to 'get the other side of the story' - the problem was that Brock and Lowndes didn't offer much. There is no cover up, but there is a bit of a concerning silence.

I also must say that I hope, in future, you can offer your opinions (as they are interesting and valuable in this forum) without personal attacks and insults. By insulting others you make yourself look like an immature and hot-headed fool, which I would hope is not the case.

[Roy Slaven]

Did they encourage you to talk to Larry Perkins. He would be upfront and honest. But I am sure HRT and various memebers of that team past and present would not like what he would have too say.

Crennan it can not be denied is a good even great buisness man no question about that. But his relationship with "people" has never been easy

[Quested]

Yeah, John Harvey (who was with HRT in the 'early years') suggested that I chat with Larry, and I did indeed call Larry several times, but again he was always 'too busy' to talk. I think one of the problems with preparing a book is that many people are 'too busy' to talk, never return calls, etc... and then when the book comes out wish that they had. (Or, at lest, I wish that they had!)

[Roy Slaven]

Maybe Larry lives by the saying "If you have nothing good to say say nothing at all".

Harvey was only Team Manager of HRT for 1989. I believe that was his only offical involvment with the team

[GTRMagic]

How would he be team manager for 1989 when they went back to Larry P to rent some cars again for Bathurst...? :confused:

[Roy Slaven]

Yes Larry supplied the cars and engineering, Harvey was supplied by HSV along with Win Percy (Who is very ill at present in hospital). Harvey was Team Manager as reported at the time in Auto Action etc

[Quested]

John Harvey was really instrumental in setting up HRT before they started racing, and then Larry took over for the actual racing. John did a lot of stuff like getting the workshop set up, etc. Win came out to drive because he was with TWR in the UK, and basically got sent out to 'do' the Australian operation. This created a lot of ill-feeling betwen the Poms and the Aussies... quite an entertaining bit of HRT history when you look back on it.

[MHDT]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
How would he be team manager for 1989 when they went back to Larry P to rent some cars again for Bathurst...? :confused:

GTR - who (Harvey or HRT) wanted to rent which cars from Larry in 1989? :confused:

[GTRMagic]

1989 saw Win Percy join LP in the Perkins Engineering run & owned, Holden badged enduro team...

Cromley & Steve Harrington shared the same car at Sandown, while Cromley complained his car wasnt being loved as much as the one LP & Win shared, so Steve & Neil got to share with LP and Win respectively, and finished a meaningless 6th & 7th....

I presume HSV did this deal, or indeed the then-new Holden Motorsport....

[MHDT]

I thought Perkins and Mezera shared a VL at Bathurst that year? Perhaps Harrington was left out altogether for Bathurst?

Interesting to note that Perkins' services were dropped fairly quickly after the 1988 Bathurst debarcle (would like to know what was said to LP), but reinstated during HRT's 'time of need' (like when they couldn't get their own act together - 'the pre-Brock years'!).

[Hobo high]

Originally posted by Quested
Hobo high - it seems you have taken some fragments of truth from various sources, mixed in lashings of gossip, and cooked up the version of events that you have chosen to believe. I will not be so foolish as to try to discuss these things further with you because, as you say, there are two sides of the story, and it seems you have chosen which side to accept.

Yes - I did write that 'one sided' account of all things HRT, which you say you haven't read. If you have not read it, how can you say it is one sided? Once again, it seems you are forming an opinion without bothering to fully inform yourself.

Again, there are two sides to every story, but I don't think you can accuse HRT of trying to cover anything up. They encouraged me to talk to Brock and Lowndes to 'get the other side of the story' - the problem was that Brock and Lowndes didn't offer much. There is no cover up, but there is a bit of a concerning silence.

I also must say that I hope, in future, you can offer your opinions (as they are interesting and valuable in this forum) without personal attacks and insults. By insulting others you make yourself look like an immature and hot-headed fool, which I would hope is not the case.

I have to say , my sources are impeciable and have integrity .I still have a beauty email from the great wally weasal , with a great rant and rave - i always wonder how how he got my email???? . I have met craig at a signing session at bathurst , my question to him drew the complete attention of all his minders from FORD ,the question was about the cretain .I have a priceless poster with a great comment about him that was worded oh so carefully , so as only the both of us would understand.Friends crack up everytime i tell the story . I have no doubts he was shoved , just like BROCK in 1997.Bev brock was quoted at a brock owners dinner as saying peter would have loved to race on in 1998, but ............ Quested if you don't relise it yet, TWR/HRT/HSV REPULSE ME , for what they did to BROCK and LOWNDES .As a HOLDEN fan i would have loved to seen lowndes carry on the great legacey that BROCK had created for HRT. Unfortunately some grubbey ego's had other intentions and ointed one skaife to fill that role. I sure the majority of fans would have loved to seen lowndes carry on the BROCK legacey with HRT - and i'm sure BROCK would have loved to have seen it happen as well. PS- If ya have a spare copy of ya book , i may read it for ya and correct the mistakes for the sequel!

[TSR]

Surly Brockie would have enough money and pull within Holden to start PBR. And that
another new name

[webberisgod]

If Brock would have loved to race in 1998, how come he didnt try and put a deal togeather elsewhere? Surley teams would have been near falling overtehmselves to get somone of his profile on board

[Quested]

GTR Magic said:

I presume HSV did this deal, or indeed the then-new Holden Motorsport ... 1989 saw Win Percy join LP in the Perkins Engineering run & owned, Holden badged enduro team...

Larry was contracted to race while HRT were getting themselves set up. As I wrote in the book, "Larry Perkins was contracted to run the Holden Racing Team for the initial season [1988], although then it was called Special Vehicles Racing."

MHDT said:

Interesting to note that Perkins' services were dropped fairly quickly after the 1988 Bathurst debarcle (would like to know what was said to LP), but reinstated during HRT's 'time of need' (like when they couldn't get their own act together - 'the pre-Brock years'!).

There are many reasons why things didn't work out with Larry and HRT, and one of the main ones was rivalry between Walkinshaw and the Brits on one hand, and Larry and the locals on the other. There are some great stories about what happened when Walkinshaw turned up with his own car, drove it 'till it broke, then wanted to get into Larry's car. Despite all that, however, Larry fulfilled his commitment and was with 'HRT' for the endurances races of 1988 and 1989 - he only had a contract to run things for two years. He was not 'dropped fairly quickly after ... 1988'.

What do you mean when you say that Perkins' services were reinstated? They were not.

[Roy Slaven]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
1989 saw Win Percy join LP in the Perkins Engineering run & owned, Holden badged enduro team...

It may have been Perkins owned but it wasn't Perkins run.

Larry had Win Percy taken out of car 16 and put in car 7 with Crompton by Holden/Harvey. Harrington was dropped by Holden for Bathurst as he was not performing

[aj_308]

Originally posted by Hobo high
I have to say , my sources are impeciable and have integrity .I still have a beauty email from the great wally weasal , with a great rant and rave - i always wonder how how he got my email???? . I have met craig at a signing session at bathurst , my question to him drew the complete attention of all his minders from FORD ,the question was about the cretain .I have a priceless poster with a great comment about him that was worded oh so carefully , so as only the both of us would understand.Friends crack up everytime i tell the story . I have no doubts he was shoved , just like BROCK in 1997.Bev brock was quoted at a brock owners dinner as saying peter would have loved to race on in 1998, but ............ Quested if you don't relise it yet, TWR/HRT/HSV REPULSE ME , for what they did to BROCK and LOWNDES .As a HOLDEN fan i would have loved to seen lowndes carry on the great legacey that BROCK had created for HRT. Unfortunately some grubbey ego's had other intentions and ointed one skaife to fill that role. I sure the majority of fans would have loved to seen lowndes carry on the BROCK legacey with HRT - and i'm sure BROCK would have loved to have seen it happen as well.

Couldn't agree more if i tried.
refer to this post anyone who wants to know why i dont like holden/hsv(crennan)/skaife. Best post i've read here or anywhere for that matter. Cheers to you Hobo for confirming i am not the only one out there..

[Grimace]

Originally posted by aj_308
Couldn't agree more if i tried.
refer to this post anyone who wants to know why i dont like holden/hsv(crennan)/skaife. Best post i've read here or anywhere for that matter. Cheers to you Hobo for confirming i am not the only one out there..

Cheers Hobo!!!!!!! great post, havent i heard them called the evil empire? A nasty lot indeed!!!

[A9X05]

Hobo high! I too used to be a fan of the RED TEAM and I thought what you said was pretty much how things did pan out during that era you speak off. Another thing I find a bit strange, is the high turn over of top quality drivers they have had in all the years they have been racing.Especially since 1996, they have had at least 6-7 that I can remember so I think there must be a common link in there somewhere ?

[Aarrgh8]

The common link is called 'winning'. Check Craig Lowndes' CV for confirmation.

[Average Punter]

Originally posted by Hobo high
PS- If ya have a spare copy of ya book , i may read it for ya and correct the mistakes for the sequel!

HH, you could buy your own. I saw it marked down from $50 to $29 at Big W in Young on the weekend. Still too dear though!

[Wizzby]

It seems to me a lot of people have an opinion on the whole deal... but really haven't looked into it...

I'd love to know who your sources are Hobo (apart from Wally Weissel whom I know) Like Quested says, if they were so upset about being 'shafted', why weren't they inclined to talk about it, put the story straight? Staying silent normally means they have something to hide

[mjt57]

Originally posted by Hobo high
I have to say , my sources are impeciable and have integrity .

And Andrew's sources aren't?

At least he's a known and proven player. We don't even know who you are.

I s'pose it'd help if the "impeciable" sources were quoted, eh?