2010 Masters of Formula 3

[cleanup]

Originally Posted by wdj

I believe 2010 Master's entry list reflects fairly current F3 main series. Exception for Webb (and Calado, if you consider his good performance at Silverstone means enough credentials), every driver/team that got wins this year, or holding good position at points table, are there.

Theres obviously much talk regarding the reasons why Masters isnt fully supported. For sure its a travisy not to have Webb there who has the raw pace to win from the front and Calado who can out race the best with a reliable car, both should be there but in reality, like all BF3 entries, do not stand a chance.Wise decision from Webb and Calado not to go. Change the tyres to something equal to all competitors and all the best F3 drivers will be there. Yes the financial implications are a problem but I think it a bigger problem watching a great race fade into insignificance. F3 should use the same tyres in every series across the world, level playing field, greater numbers, better financial input and true talent will shine through and make F3 the true premier junior series it ought to be.Well done Bottas and Simms.

[strider]

Originally Posted by cleanup

F3 should use the same tyres in every series across the world, level playing field, greater numbers, better financial input and true talent will shine through and make F3 the true premier junior series it ought to be.

There is no need to go as far as that. All they have to do is ensure that for the major races attended by all the leading drivers, a neutral tyres is used.

The Yokohamas used in Macau are perfect. I believe Yokohamas were also used in Zandvoort until Kumho bought their way in.

[strider]

Finally a report without any mention of penalties and these are the results:

Pos Driver                    Team          Car      Time/Gap
 1. Valtteri Bottas           ART           D/M    41m38.851s
 2. Alexander Sims            ART           D/M        +1.131
 3. Marco Wittmann            Signature     D/V       +11.054
 4. Jean-Eric Vergne          Carlin        D/V       +12.693
 5. Edoardo Mortara           Signature     D/V       +18.563
 6. Gabriel Dias              Hitech        D/V     +1:07.717
 7. Lucas Foresti             Carlin        D/V     +1:11.166
 8. Wayne Boyd                Sino Vision   D/M     +1:14.084
 9. Hywel Lloyd               CF/Manor      D/M     +1:15.227
10. Rio Haryanto              CF/Manor      D/M        +1 lap
11. William Buller            Hitech        D/V        +1 lap
12. Roberto Merhi             Mucke         D/M        +1 lap
13. Rupert Svendsen-Cook      Carlin        D/V        +1 lap
14. Nigel Melker              Mucke         D/M        +1 lap
15. Carlos Munoz              Mucke         D/M        +1 lap
16. Daniel Juncadella         Prema         D/M       +2 laps
17. Adderly Fong              Sino Vision   D/M       +2 laps
18. Antonio Felix da Costa    Motopark      D/V       +2 laps
19. Nicolas Marroc            Prema         D/M       +2 laps
20. Matias Laine              Motopark      D/V       +3 laps
21. Stef Dusseldorp           Signature     D/V       +3 laps
22. Laurens Vanthoor          Signature     D/V       +3 laps

Not classified

    Jazeman Jaafar            Carlin        D/V        2 laps
    Jim Pla                   ART           D/M        2 laps

Although it doesn't say so, Vergne did get the fastest lap. The mixed weather conditions allowed the ability of the BF3 drivers to shine through despite their poor starting positions.

[brucelok2003]

Originally Posted by wdj

May not have finished yet. I don't know it means something, but seems that 2 cars among top six are facing some technical issues on final scrutineering.

I mean the next big F3 race will be Macau GP. cuz ppl often say F3 Masters and Macau F3 are essential races for F3 drivers.

For Macau F3, I would like to see how Signature defends their title in 2009.

[Valker]

There's a mistake in Autosport results. Haryanto was excluded for ignoring yellow and dangerous driving causing an accident.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Valker

There's a mistake in Autosport results. Haryanto was excluded for ignoring yellow and dangerous driving causing an accident.

Thanks, Valker. I've amended them and the version below should be correct.

Amended results:

Pos Driver                    Team          Car      Time/Gap
 1. Valtteri Bottas           ART           D/M    41m38.851s
 2. Alexander Sims            ART           D/M        +1.131
 3. Marco Wittmann            Signature     D/V       +11.054
 4. Jean-Eric Vergne          Carlin        D/V       +12.693
 5. Edoardo Mortara           Signature     D/V       +18.563
 6. Gabriel Dias              Hitech        D/V     +1:07.717
 7. Lucas Foresti             Carlin        D/V     +1:11.166
 8. Wayne Boyd                Sino Vision   D/M     +1:14.084
 9. Hywel Lloyd               CF/Manor      D/M     +1:15.227
10. William Buller            Hitech        D/V        +1 lap
11. Roberto Merhi             Mucke         D/M        +1 lap
12. Rupert Svendsen-Cook      Carlin        D/V        +1 lap
13. Nigel Melker              Mucke         D/M        +1 lap
14. Carlos Munoz              Mucke         D/M        +1 lap
15. Daniel Juncadella         Prema         D/M       +2 laps
16. Adderly Fong              Sino Vision   D/M       +2 laps
17. Antonio Felix da Costa    Motopark      D/V       +2 laps
18. Nicolas Marroc            Prema         D/M       +2 laps
19. Matias Laine              Motopark      D/V       +3 laps
20. Stef Dusseldorp           Signature     D/V       +3 laps
21. Laurens Vanthoor          Signature     D/V       +3 laps

Not classified

    Jazeman Jaafar            Carlin        D/V        2 laps
    Jim Pla                   ART           D/M        2 laps

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by Valker

There's a mistake in Autosport results. Haryanto was excluded for ignoring yellow and dangerous driving causing an accident.

Was that the driver who blocked Jean-Eric Vergne for a full lap? If so, this penalty is more than deserved.

[cleanup]

Originally Posted by strider

There is no need to go as far as that. All they have to do is ensure that for the major races attended by all the leading drivers, a neutral tyres is used.

The Yokohamas used in Macau are perfect. I believe Yokohamas were also used in Zandvoort until Kumho bought their way in.

Yes Strider, guess that was what I was basically saying albeit in a roundabout way. Same tyres for all, job fixed, best drivers in it, series more successful. Agree, Yoko`s at Macau good choice. Lets hope it gets resolved. Maybe a possible merger for EF3 with BF3 into one series might make the tyre issue easier to sort.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by strider

The mixed weather conditions allowed the ability of the BF3 drivers to shine through despite their poor starting positions

strider in my opinion the only ability that shone was that of surviving, regardless of series, tyres, teams whatever.

[Quintin03]

BF3 and F3-ES merging? Hope that won't be another German F3-French F3 merger. Would love to see a real European series with a couple national series as sub classes.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Daisy

Was that the driver who blocked Jean-Eric Vergne for a full lap? If so, this penalty is more than deserved.

Looking at a number of factors, Daisy, I don't think it was.

I was only following the race on live timing. Vergne started 8th and from there went progressively forward, so I don't see that there was ever a time when he was behind Haryanto, although, thinking about it some more, he might have had to lap him and that could been the problem, but it didn't cause Vergne to have an accident, so again probably not..

[strider]

There is a very full race report here for anyone who is interested.

[JVD]

Originally Posted by Daisy

Was that the driver who blocked Jean-Eric Vergne for a full lap? If so, this penalty is more than deserved.

No, one of the Hitech drivers blocked Vergne for a lap, i think it was Buller but i'm not sure, got a photo of it...

[F1 Prospects]

If you want to watch the race for yourself you can check it our here:

http://www.circuit-zandvoort.nl/even...ecam/index.xml

[bella]

i think watching the f3 masters in its entirety qualifies as torture under the european convention on human rights

thanks for the link though

[F1 Prospects]

Originally Posted by bella

i think watching the f3 masters in its entirety qualifies as torture under the european convention on human rights

thanks for the link though

Unfortunately being in North America with its lack of coverage of F3, WSR and GP3 means I have to take what I can get!

That link though allows you to also watch Formula Ford, FR Eurocup and FBMW in those crazy conditions of Race 2.

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

i think watching the f3 masters in its entirety qualifies as torture under the european convention on human rights

thanks for the link though

I think that comment disqualifies you from being a Mod on here, miss. There was actually some overtaking this year!

[strider]

Autosport's lack of interest in the race was confirmed when the magazine came out today. Just a single page report and half of that was taken up by a photo. The report was not written by a staff reporter either.

[bella]

bit of a political statement, that, surely?

[strider]

Exactly.

At some stage there has to be a massive shake-up of the junior formulae. I've heard that the F3ES is planning some sort of merger with the German F3 Cup, but something more than that is needed.

When you think about it, F3, GP3 and F2 are all in competition with each other. The initiative will have to come from very high up, but I wouldn't be surprised to see all three disappear and a single formula replace them. Maybe it will be a brand new F3 with more power and less expense. The restricter needs to go for a start.

[bella]

it's very important not to lose the scope for engineering knowhow to make a difference. but i think the situation we have now is that a manufacturer doesn't want to hang about in a series where they're being thrashed by another manufacturer. that's the beauty of all the renault series.

essentially f3 has an excellent supply chain set up for tuners, carbon fibre manufacturers, gearbox suppliers, and so on. it's important to keep that for the sake of the motorsport industry as a whole. if the engine supplier has issues in gp3 or f2 for example there's no alternatives, so everyone has to put up with it. no natural competition.

i think it's kind of important the masters is kept alive though, same with macau. it'd just need a bit of resolving. perhaps the relative lack of coverage this year and the small field will provide the encouragement to sort it out. looking at photographs there were certainly still people willing to watch it so it can't be that lost.

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

i think it's kind of important the masters is kept alive though, same with macau. it'd just need a bit of resolving. perhaps the relative lack of coverage this year and the small field will provide the encouragement to sort it out. looking at photographs there were certainly still people willing to watch it so it can't be that lost.

I agree the Masters should be kept alive, but I found a poll on the circuit website, I think it was, and about two-thirds of the people said they were going to see Vettel in the Red Bull...

[Peter Cammish]

I was at the meeting and decided to go get my coat from my car after the Vettel run (which was not great to be honest just few laps and donuts). The amount of people leaving the circuit with me was massive and it struck me that only half the racing was complete, also the heavy rain had not started by then. By the time the FBMW race was on the crowd was small and for FF just those like me who had an interest and few diehard fans. F1 is now doing what it has threatened to do for many years which is to ruin a great sport, unless things change the sport will have no relevance to the normal sports fan in 5 years, in truth most spectators at Zandvoort enjoyed the party atmosphere and free red bull goodies, after 35 years as a fan of motorsport I dont know were it is heading but I suspect south and into general oblivion. Most of my friends could not name any drivers outside of F1 apart from my son!!.

[Valker]

Originally Posted by strider

I've heard that the F3ES is planning some sort of merger with the German F3 Cup, but something more than that is needed.

AFAIK, F3ES is not planning anything. The series will disappear after this season. German F3 will get it's championship status back, and will be open for latest generation cars too (trophy class is likely to be axed). Calendar should consist mostly of ADAC Masters Weekends + about 3 DTM rounds (outside Germany).

There's no decision on tyres yet (nor any other official decisions), but I believe most teams prefer Yokohama over Kumho, so if Marlboro Masters keeps the Korean brand, it will be a "neutral" tyre for everyone.

F3ES surviving via merger to British F3 is just Philippe Sinault's fantasy. For some reason he seems to hope that F3ES could still survive.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Valker

F3ES surviving via merger to British F3 is just Philippe Sinault's fantasy. For some reason he seems to hope that F3ES could still survive.

Fréderic Vasseur also mentioned this as possibility quite a while ago, but I don't see that it would be workable.