Hill: Senna was at Fault

[graves]

Originally posted by Charlex
I can't beleive so many people just say things with only speculations and without any facts, and they just act like it's the total truth. I don't see any value on posting thnigs without a support.
For me, it's suspicious that all this appeared right now, when it could help Damon's old pals like Head and William.
If you want facts about the accident, visit:

http://www.thesennafiles.com/s-files/evidence.html

At least you can see pictures of the car shape after the accident and start becoming with more knwoledge of what you are talking.

What kind of "evidence" is that anyway?! Most of the energy developed on impact would have travelled through the steering column. To say that it broke before the impact to me IS speculation. In fact I am sure I have heard that the car data showed that there was clear steering deflection going through the column after the car had started the leave the track, proving the column was still intact. My original post was a simplified (very simplified ) version of Macca's "scenario".

[garcon]

Amidst all the speculation and "evidence" one way or another, here's a typically factual, considered approach from the BBC. Gives the facts, nothing more, nothing less. Click on the Why Senna crashed link on the centre of the following page...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/default.stm

[freud]

Originally posted by spider
Great story!! I think the best way of summing him up was 'intense'...!

I dont think intense means that one takes risks which endanger one's life. Every f1 driver knows that there is certain risk of death while driving a car at that speed and he accepts that.

Its simply wrong for Damon to come up and try to protect F1 and Williams from what clearly was a snapped steering wheel. Just looking at the last few seconds of onboard camera with Senna, you would see Senna's head violently turning towards the left(along with the steering) clearly as if he is trying his best to turn the car left but its just going straight. Now I would not blame Williams for sure. These things can happen and no one care dare thinkof a deliberate plot to kill Senna. But again, it was NOT, it was NOT Senna's fault.

[Charlex]

Originally posted by graves
What kind of "evidence" is that anyway?! Most of the energy developed on impact would have travelled through the steering column. To say that it broke before the impact to me IS speculation. In fact I am sure I have heard that the car data showed that there was clear steering deflection going through the column after the car had started the leave the track, proving the column was still intact. My original post was a simplified (very simplified ) version of Macca's "scenario".

Exactly!! I know it could be very simple to prove that the steering was intact, just using the telemetry, but wait, they couldn't do it!! If not, it will be very simple to prove it, and then a trial would have never existed. I never heard that they could prove it with the telemetry, which also doesn't prove anything, it could be that the sensor was broke. But looking the tape, the wheels and Senna's reaction, it's not hard to believe it.

Besides, I don't know if you know about materials and stresses, but the way it broke the column, it was for torsion, and the only way, a torsion could exist, if one end rotates an angle from the other end of the column. It means, the driver side (steering wheel) must have been fixed by some way in the crash.
Every driver, even in the smaller classes, when they see the inminent crash agaist the wall, they release the steering wheel, so as they don't brake their wrists or their arms (yes, the pilot's wrist or arms are MORE fragile than the steel of the steering column). So it's also difficult to believe that the steering column can brake the way it broke, in the crash.

Don't forget Coulthard input, he drove that car also, that year, and he said that the oscillations of the steering wheel were huge, what is a perfect cause for fatigue.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying THIS is what happenned, sadly, I don't know the truth, but this theory has more facts, and answers to things that the other theory (he crashed because he was pushing too hard, the temperature of the tyres, safety car,etc, etc) doesn't even try to answer.

[Charlex]

Originally posted by Mr V
Thats what happens on a message board

If everyone posted facts as opposed to their beliefs, this place would be very quiet indeed

I completely agree, everybody has right to say what they think, but in a rational way. If this is what you think, just say "in my opinion..., I believe..., I think...,", not acting like Iknow this was the truth.

The "end of story" phrase bothered me, saying this is what really happened, believe it and shut up, don't argue it, which, definitely I don't buy it.

[garcon]

Originally posted by freud
I dont think intense means that one takes risks which endanger one's life. Every f1 driver knows that there is certain risk of death while driving a car at that speed and he accepts that.

Its simply wrong for Damon to come up and try to protect F1 and Williams from what clearly was a snapped steering wheel. Just looking at the last few seconds of onboard camera with Senna, you would see Senna's head violently turning towards the left(along with the steering) clearly as if he is trying his best to turn the car left but its just going straight. Now I would not blame Williams for sure. These things can happen and no one care dare thinkof a deliberate plot to kill Senna. But again, it was NOT, it was NOT Senna's fault.

Sorry freud, but I can't see how you can draw those conclusions from the evidence available. Sure, it's possible that it was steering failure, but driver error can be argued equally as well. We'll never know, especially as the Italian authorities failed to preserve the evidence.

[ASCII Man]

I don't believe that Senna made a mistake, I think it has more to do with a faulty steering column than anything else as freud said before, but that's just my opinion...

[1200Datto27]

Two things;

1, where is there any evidence that the benneton's where illegal? I have heard a number of allegations, but no proof.

2, The photo's that I have seen of the steering wheel and attached broken column show damage that could have occured in an impact, especially when you see the damage on the side of the chassis from where the tyre was compressed into it. Where the photos show the column breaking, then the forces involved could have very easily sheared the column in that point. I have had cattle snap brand new, thick wall CDS (the same pipe as used in roll cages) just by hitting it at a leverage point, causing the pipe to rip, with minimal crush damage, at the point that it is sleaved into a joint.

Also, torsional damage usually does not have crush damage, unless there is some other lateral forces involved, but does have other visible damage, such as spiral stress cracks leading to the failure, and in the direction of the applied forces. I have broken tractor PTO shafts, driveshafts and propshafts with torsional overloads, and they all show the same damage as I mentioned above. Again this is not visible in the photos.

If the column had failed at that point before the impact, then Senna would have been the only thing holding the wheel in the car, and the wheel and column would most likely have ended up in the footwell, or out of the car.

Again, these are only my observations, but I do base them on experience,

[graves]

Originally posted by Charlex
The "end of story" phrase bothered me, saying this is what really happened, believe it and shut up, don't argue it, which, definitely I don't buy it.

I think you have misinterpreted what I meant by "end of story". I was simply refering to the end of the chain of events leading up to impact. Not "thats what happened so shut it!"

[cos]

Originally posted by 1200Datto27
Two things;

1, where is there any evidence that the benneton's where illegal? I have heard a number of allegations, but no proof.

This probably deserves its own thread but...

The 1994 Benetton had on it illegal software which served as traction control. When the FIA found it, Benetton basically said "OK it's there but you can't prove that it's been used." Senna, after he crashed out at Aida, (I think), stood by the side of the track listening to the cars and was convinced that Schumacher was using TC.

[Barbazza]

To be fair to Damon, his explanation for Senna's crash has been taken slightly out of context. It was part of a 1,000-words-or-so piece he wrote for The Times, describing the events of May 1 1994. It's fair of some of us to question how and why he came to the conclusion that Ayrton was to blame, but it's unfair to take his comment as if that is the only thing he wrote. His was actually a very interesting and moving piece on how the events unfolded and how they affected Formula One and Williams as a team. We can questions Damon's ability to pass judgement on the cause of an accident but he is well qualified to convey the emotions of the F1 paddock at that time. I don't know if the internet version of his piece is in full, but if you can get hold of the paper version it was certainly a good read.

[Dutch chap]

Two things;

1, where is there any evidence that the benneton's where illegal? I have heard a number of allegations, but no proof.

By now it's considered so well known that the 1994 Bennetons were illegal that, if you're stating they were not illegal, you'd have to prove it.

[Adam43]

On the subject of Benetton '94. It isn't relavent here. Most threads develop and this is one of those topics that often pop up in other threads. Considering the nature of this thread I think it is best kept out of it. There is no real chance to split it either. Thanks.

[Dutch chap]

On the subject of Benetton '94. It isn't relavent here. Most threads develop and this is one of those topics that often pop up in other threads. Considering the nature of this thread I think it is best kept out of it. There is no real chance to split it either. Thanks.

How true! Sorry!

[Adam43]

Nothing to apologise for.

[f1atic]

I don't think we will ever know if it was a failed part or a driver error. The failed part was never proved. The driver error is very likely. One must figure that at the speeds F1 cars run (even 10 years ago), a minute twitch could cause a catastrophic accident.

It is indeed very sad that a freak occurance, the odds of which are astronomical, could have happened and taken the life of Senna.

What I find absurd is the idea that someone should be taken to court to answer to charges for it. There was no overt neglegence on anyone's part. RACING IS DANGEROUS AND DRIVERS CAN DIE. All drivers know that at some level; although, I know when I raced (not anything like F1) I never believed it would happen to me. You can't race and realize your own mortality during a race.

The courts need to bow out!

[paulzinho]

I think for Damon to have been able to continue racing he had to believe it was a driver error, no matter what.

Otherwise how could you drive a car to the limits if you believed it could have caused something like that.

I for one don't believe he made a mistake, something might have happenned to cause loss of grip but I don't believe it was a mistake, not at a corner like Tamburello.

[DavidStHubbins]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2722,00.html

An interesting article that was originally in The Times and shown in The Australian.

Seems Senna was making adjustments before the race to the already skittish but fast Williams in a bid to beat Schumacher.

[Eff One]

The stack may or may not have been a result of a mistake on the part of Senna for all any of us know but personally I seriously doubt it. I watched the accident again today and in the on-board footage from Schumacher's car sparks are clearly visible as Senna's car bottoms out, then jolts sharply to the right twice before slamming into the wall.

And whilst I was a big Senna fan I ain't one of those people who thought he never could make a mistake. He made plently of 'em during his career and that's a fact. Imola 1994 wasn't one of them though imo as I don't see how the **** you can take a flat-out corner too fast.

[DavidStHubbins]

If the car is set too low and there are bumps in the flat out corner that your team mate is avoiding for fear of crashing then you have just worked out how it is possible to lose it in a flat-out corner. Add cold tyres, dusty track, and having Schumacher behind you. I don't think anything broke on the Williams. I just think it was set-up badly, too much emphasis on pace and little on drivability. It was set up on a knife-edge.

[Knowlesy]

I must say, I've always had a suspicion Senna made an error that day.......although nobody can be sure.

What saddens me is that the court case will be dredging all these bad memories again.

[qaz]

His car was set to minimum ride height for maximum downforce.Because he was behind the safety car for 1 lap his tyre temp/pressure dropped causing the car ride height to lower slightly.This caused the bottoming out over the bumps which caused the accident.Dont think there was anything he could have done.Buts this is just my opinion.

[garcon]

Welcome to ten tenths qaz

I suspect you're right - but we'll never know for sure.

[Kicking-back]

Hopefully we can leave this one now...

[Tye]

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1
Damon Hill has launch a statement that he knows that many people will never believe. He said that he believes Ayrton Senna was responsible for the crash that claimed his life.

"I am convinced that he made a mistake, but many people will never believe that he could," said Hill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/3641633.stm

Uhm, I am one of that many people. Or exactly, I didn't want to believe this.

Well I've always believed from the day of this accident that it was the pressure of Micheal Schumacher that caused Senna's death.

As we all know...pressure can be an equalizer in sport.

Tye