Are V8 Supercars the future?

[Robert Ryan]

Pete 55 ,knowing how some other classes are organised, self destruction is the norm. Go back to my post."you make your own success"

[cavvy]

Popular - www.autopics.com.au - search 65702 - this lot are competitors - we spectators follow - Coch0 is doing a great job on us spectators with 1/2 full fields.

[racer69]

Originally posted by mixxer
Riddle me this DRT which (in your view) has been the most popular motorsport class in Aus over the last 10 yrs ?

oops forgot the brackets

What choice was there?

For 30 years saloon car racing has been the most popular class in Australian motorsport, be it Group C (Mk I & II), Group A and V8Supercars. It has attracted the biggest crowds and has been the motorsport which the media pays attention (no matter how small) to.

The V8 series from the outset had the drivers and teams that had been around for years and the history of the championship to draw on (whether that history included cars with Turbo's, rotary's or another class). Anything that tried to challenge it faced an uphill battle to promote it's own 'stars' and history, as any V8 driver running in it was seen in some quarters as 'stepping down'.


If the point of street races is to attract new fans. isn't the point also to get them interested in all motorsport? If the only events they attend are street races and are not interested in attending races at proper motorsport venue's, then what is the point of it all other than to line the head of AVESCO's pockets?

[Robert Ryan]

racer69 you have missed the point. Street races give the non-racing fan exposure to live Motoracing, something they would not normally experience.Lack of attendance at Sporting events does not mean, the sport is ignored. NSW has a history of poor turnouts for virtually all sports, but it would be silly to say people are less interested in Sport in NSW than in other states.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by FFOracing
1. Cars a too alike and bear no resemblence to road going cars. They should race what can be purchased off a showroom floor with minor modifications, namely safety.

Amen.

Not only would this spice the racing up, but we would get some pretty swankie cars on the road too. I dont want to see something where 5 cars were ever made (and sold to race teams anyway) either, minimum 2000 sold before it sees the track.

Originally posted by FFOracing
REMEMBER: Motorsport is ENTERTAINMENT. Take away the crashes, spills and thrills and you will slowly loose fans as they become bored. SOmething I am becomming.

Incorrect I'm afraid, motorsport is business.

Many dont like that (me included), but thats reality. The sooner people understand this, the better.

[Chucky]

Entertainment/sport/business. Same thing these days.

[Just Do It!]

Correct Chucky - Its the Sports Entertainment Business. Its fantastic, and despite what all the critics say, AVESCO have worked wonders on the series and the bolstered the whole sport on the back of it.

[D.R.T.]

Originally posted by Just Do It!
AVESCO have worked wonders on the series and the bolstered the whole sport on the back of it.

Explain to me how Avesco's antics have bolstered Aus motorsport.

To me since Avesco's inception Aus motorsport as a whole has declined. Wheres the long term plan. Whats worse is that Cams have sat back and watched.

At many opportunities Avesco even tries to place itself away from the rest of Aus motorsport.

"AVESCO's antics" what do you mean?

As to a replacement. Why? Its the most popular circuit (and street) racing series we have ever had!

What is the point of going to an alternative that nobody went and watched (in comparison) . . . and still don't?

GTP (the most likely) floundered as most of the racing cars had limitations that put them below the performance of their road going counterparts. GT Production with manufacturer involvement would just bring back the old 70s public Supercar outcry.

[EGG]

Mmmm, but a couple of years ago most of the dissenters were V8 fans, but there's only so much you can watch it. For a dedicated fan, it's probably great. For a casual fan or general motorsport fan, it's probably more of the same each year. The same drivers in the same cars on the same circuits. Ingall bumps a few people off the track, Bargs crashes, Bowe complains, Ambrose/Skaife wins.

The V8's are rather good as a series, my main beef with it is that it's controlling body has pretty much set out to stifle all other motorsport, foreign or local in Australia. Refusing to play if the ALMS are there, trying to knock ChampCar out of a contract, getting onto other motorsports tickets(Indy, Albert Park), deliberately scheduling on the same day as other events(Telstra Rally Australia).

Now I've heard rumours of a Superbike/Supercar dual-round. I'm not sure whether this would be good or not or what.

[peckstar]

well you ruined your point in you first paragraph didnt you EGG. skaife wins, not so far, bargs crashes his 8th in the championship and finished in the top 5 in the last three races
ingall bumps a few people , replace with reckless kelly, ambrose wins (who was he 4 years ago) for that matter who was rick kelly.

Certainly not hurting afl crowds and audiences being the same, doubt it will effect the v8's

my local football team gets no tv coverage and sponsorship is limited, why should lower classes of motorsport.

there can only be one top dog and v8s is it because thats where out top drivers and teams go and always have, its why two litres failed and its why procar failed and it will always be like that.

[Chucky]

Originally posted by Just Do It!
Correct Chucky - Its the Sports Entertainment Business. Its fantastic, and despite what all the critics say, AVESCO have worked wonders on the series and the bolstered the whole sport on the back of it.

As long as the whole sport is V8 Supercar. Outside of that it's sucked the life from Aust. motorsport through a mixture of abusive market power and predatory marketing

[Chucky]

Originally posted by EGG
The V8's are rather good as a series, my main beef with it is that it's controlling body has pretty much set out to stifle all other motorsport, foreign or local in Australia. Refusing to play if the ALMS are there, trying to knock ChampCar out of a contract, getting onto other motorsports tickets(Indy, Albert Park), deliberately scheduling on the same day as other events(Telstra Rally Australia).

A bit the same way that a short, white haired Pom tried to do for years before the EEC shut down those ideas.

[Rowdy]

isn't AVESCO's job to promote V8 supercars and do the best job they possibly can with their category? PROCAR for example would promote their series, did they ever help promote the V8's? In the end it is us, the motorsport and sports fans that decide which category thrives and which doesn't. Procar is dead because it never captured the public, V8's are going great because they have and as far as I am concerned it is a great series. I think its sad that people continually ***** and moan about TC and AVESCO when thay have created and provided such a fantastic series. If their is scheduling clashes once again the fans decide where to go. Club racing will always be around because its the competitors who have always financed that themselves and have done it because of their love of racing. can never remember massive crowds at a club meet. V8SC will never effect that. If the people decide the category is no good anymore, crowds will go, sponsors will go and eventually something new will appear on the horizon but for now why can't you just appreciate what we have?

[Chucky]

Originally posted by Orrcon King
isn't AVESCO's job to promote V8 supercars and do the best job they possibly can with their category? PROCAR for example would promote their series, did they ever help promote the V8's? In the end it is us, the motorsport and sports fans that decide which category thrives and which doesn't. Procar is dead because it never captured the public, V8's are going great because they have and as far as I am concerned it is a great series. I think its sad that people continually ***** and moan about TC and AVESCO when thay have created and provided such a fantastic series. If their is scheduling clashes once again the fans decide where to go. Club racing will always be around because its the competitors who have always financed that themselves and have done it because of their love of racing. can never remember massive crowds at a club meet. V8SC will never effect that. If the people decide the category is no good anymore, crowds will go, sponsors will go and eventually something new will appear on the horizon but for now why can't you just appreciate what we have?

Because I don't appreciate organisations that have got where they are by the methods I outlined earlier and neither should you.

I also don't like being fed BS while being told how good it tastes.

[Robert Ryan]

Chucky,
What a total load of codswallop, the sport has never been healthier. I have been around it for 40yrs and it is the strongest it has ever been.

[Rowdy]

Then you have every right to say what you think the BS tastes like! Nobody can dictate what others think. As much as some organisations in all sorts of fields try to, people are smarter than that.(like your sig) Unfortunatly in most business/sport etc some "methods" are used which people like me and I am guessing you don't agree with, i see heaps of it in my job.A lot of the time its like knowing what the ingredients of a sausage is but still eating it anyway. In the case of V8SC they can only do what they do because the people still go to the events, buy the merch and watch the coverage. When that stops happening it all changes. If you feel strongly enough don't do any of the above and that would be respected. I still belive that in the end we decide not any organisation.

[Chucky]

Lovely sentiments Orrcon King. What's the weather like on your planet, anyway?

Robert, the only category in the country that can claim a full grid at national level is V8SC. Even FFord is struggling to get 20 cars to a national round. Sports Sedans are a shadow of themsleves. Even Carrera Cup is seeing declining grids despite being part of the AVESCO machine.

Strangely enough, the same problems don't appear at satae level, especially NSW and Vic.

[one five five]

Originally posted by Orrcon King
Club racing will always be around because its the competitors who have always financed that themselves and have done it because of their love of racing. can never remember massive crowds at a club meet. V8SC will never effect that.

V8Supercars (or any national category) do have an effect on state and club meetings. If V8Supercars neglect the permanent circuits, leading them to close, then where will one's who do it for the love of racing race?

[Robert Ryan]

Chucky they (FF) got 34 at the Vic State Champ round. Carerra Cup is gettup to 25 cars out of the original 30.
Sports Sedan unfortunately have done a wonderful hatchett job on themselves. So it has been more cost and lack of management that have affected these catergories.

And Chucky here on planet Earth, Aussie Racing Cars are huge, Historic Touring Cars numbers are almost excessive and Commodore Cup is on the up. What about Improved Production at state level? Certainly before the Procar demise GTP numbers were nearly 30 a meeting and GT Production had their best entries ever.

[Chucky]

Carrera Cup got 24 cars to the AGP and tehn went back to as low as 16 and no more than 19.

Aussie Racing Cars is going good but still new. Lets wait and see what happens when the novelty wears off.


The others mentioned are state level classes whcih all seem to be doing OK.

[cavvy]

Originally posted by Chucky
As long as the whole sport is V8 Supercar. Outside of that it's sucked the life from Aust. motorsport through a mixture of abusive market power and predatory marketing

Chucky, I support your sentiment but I fear our views are a minority - most sports have tended to centralise their focus, e.g cricket, no one goes to the Shield cricket anymore, footy- no state based comp draws crowds. The success of V8SC is a fact - the demise of the other classes makes me sad. We are encouraged to replace our trips to the circuit with the television, and/or events such as the GP, Clipsal, Indy.
Can motor sport get another class up?
If you have ever been in Perth for WRC, it is great, not Adelaide but then the circuit is not in the centre of the city & due to the time difference TV on the East Coast is minimal.
The arrogance of the V8 admin/marketing machine, specifically Coch0, leaves me breathless....

[Chucky]

I think a lot has to do with the inept mismanagement of the categories outside of V8 Supercar, actually. I think I haven't made that point very clear.

[Just Do It!]

So now you fess up, Chucky, and you admit that you are actually criticising the success, nor the management, of V8 Supercars, but rather the lack of success of other categories due to mismanagement.

It's a shame that it took 5 pages of unneccessary bickering to get your true and valid point across.

From here on in, in the thread, let's look at ways to address the categories that have been less successful and do something positive for the whole sport, rather than "tall poppy" and moan about the most successful motorsport category that Australia has ever seen.

Then we can move forward....together!