V8Supercar - Car Of The Future (Merged x4)

[Tourer]

Article here in the IT section of Fairfax media re the Kelly's design efforts on COTF:
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/busines...924-26h6x.html

[david5]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Had the flashest pedal box I've ever seen in a touring car.

[GTRMagic]

So... is Mr Kelly's shoulder really off the pace, Story Here, or are the rumours that the Nissan project needs all hands on deck and then some to get to Adelaide more than just speculation?

[FAS33]

got injured cause of a game of tug of war, and I thought they were hard workers.

[GTRMagic]

So... there is a story doing the rounds that the technical bods have reclaimed a number of Albins ST6 transaxles in order for that manufacturer to reassess some aspects of their design

The story goes that despite several different approaches to cooling techniques, different coolers, different oil velocities, different oil tank sizes and pressures, that these units apparently still have a significant propensity to operate outside the normal operating ranges of the oils used to cool and lubricate them.

There have been reports that 888, FPR & HRT have run a day each outside their regular allocated test days at the behest of the V8SA techno gumbies in order to get a handle on this issue.

Funny thing is, the oils in use in the transaxles are of similar design, and from the same manufacturers (in Castrol & Mobil amongst others), that supply oils to the current Holinger gearboxes and category standard 'Ford' 9" spool diffs.

Wonder what the solution might be? Wonder if they are asking the guys and gals at Holinger for some assistance, to bring their 20+ years of Group 'A' and V8Supercar experience to the table to correct what have been labelled an 'unsolvable problem'

Presuming any of this actually happened

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So... there is a story doing the rounds that the technical bods have reclaimed a number of Albins ST6 transaxles in order for that manufacturer to reassess some aspects of their design

The story goes that despite several different approaches to cooling techniques, different coolers, different oil velocities, different oil tank sizes and pressures, that these units apparently still have a significant propensity to operate outside the normal operating ranges of the oils used to cool and lubricate them.

There have been reports that 888, FPR & HRT have run a day each outside their regular allocated test days at the behest of the V8SA techno gumbies in order to get a handle on this issue.

Funny thing is, the oils in use in the transaxles are of similar design, and from the same manufacturers (in Castrol & Mobil amongst others), that supply oils to the current Holinger gearboxes and category standard 'Ford' 9" spool diffs.

Wonder what the solution might be? Wonder if they are asking the guys and gals at Holinger for some assistance, to bring their 20+ years of Group 'A' and V8Supercar experience to the table to correct what have been labelled an 'unsolvable problem'

Presuming any of this actually happened

This was ALWAYS going to be the big risk with COTF - replace a fairly bulletproof, proven drivetrain with something completely different with new configuration etc.

You'd have to assume that they'll get it sorted out but do have my doubts about the wisdom of heading down this path.

[Umai Naa]

When the tender was settled on for these nearly 18 months ago, I mentioned the manufacturer of the transaxle to a workmate who had extensive experiance with sports sedans and off-road racing. He just shook his head and said "They're asking for trouble".

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

When the tender was settled on for these nearly 18 months ago, I mentioned the manufacturer of the transaxle to a workmate who had extensive experiance with sports sedans and off-road racing. He just shook his head and said "They're asking for trouble".

Added to that, an engine will take longer to spin up because it will now be necessary to have the tailshaft at engine revs at all times.

Mike

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Added to that, an engine will take longer to spin up because it will now be necessary to have the tailshaft at engine revs at all times.

Mike

Does the new technical package introduce an automatic throttle blipper for the downchanges?

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So... there is a story doing the rounds that the technical bods have reclaimed a number of Albins ST6 transaxles in order for that manufacturer to reassess some aspects of their design

I'd be more surprize if they didn't..... How else are they suppose to monitor there product??

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Added to that, an engine will take longer to spin up because it will now be necessary to have the tailshaft at engine revs at all times.

Mike

Are they torque tube, or tailshaft?

Is the clutch engine end or transaxle end?

[Racenut]

From memory the tenders wanted a tail shaft with the clutch at the engine end.

[Denosaur]

From what I've managed to see of these cars, looks like a tailshaft setup.

[bluesport]

Has Skaife made a big stuff-up with the drivetrain on the COtF?

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Has Skaife made a big stuff-up with the drivetrain on the COtF?

Not really, from my experience the transaxle will need different cooling compared to the current gearbox. Even minor things such as gear width or shaft distances can make a difference in the temperature.

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Has Skaife made a big stuff-up with the drivetrain on the COtF?

From what I'm hearing a lot of folks in the biz seem to think he's stuffed the whole thing up.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

From what I'm hearing a lot of folks in the biz seem to think he's stuffed the whole thing up.

The whole thing or just the drive train?

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by bluesport

The whole thing or just the drive train?

Mine was a bit of a throw away comment, but there's been a lot of dissatisfaction with the Car of the Future process - the way it's been handled, the way parts have been selected and supplied etc.

The car itself will be ok, but it would seem that it's been made considerably more complicated than it needed to be.

Plus, there's already chatter that there will need to be a CotF 'update' for season 2014 as they find issues with the 2013 model. Some of that would be expected anyway, but it the upgrade would be more than you would expect.

Hopefully not - this has been expensive enough for teams. It would be great if it all went well from the outset.

[Umai Naa]

I'm not sure why they needed to go down the path of the transaxle.

Keeping the existing Holinger would've made much more sense money-wise, and without all the cooling issues.

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I'm not sure why they needed to go down the path of the transaxle.

Keeping the existing Holinger would've made much more sense money-wise, and without all the cooling issues.

Yes they could have fitted an independant rear end without going transaxle but this was a decision to 'improve' the weight balance rather than saving the teams money.

At the end of the day if they kept the same balance that they have now then all teams have to deal with it.

Sometimes in racing decisions are made by engineering people wanting to make it 'better' even though there is no noticable difference to the driver or spectators.

As an engineer I am in favour of the transaxle. As a business man I am against it.

[TWRv12]

Its a safety issue too, as the transaxle gives you more space to move seat inboard.

Crazy that they have got to this stage without it being sorted.

Reminds me of the first race of GP2 and the rival brake disc supplier parked his truck just outside the circuit, because he knew he would get the call!

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Its a safety issue too, as the transaxle gives you more space to move seat inboard.

Not true, the size of the transmission tunnel is not really different to present cars so does not make much difference. As far as I know they are still using the existing bellhousing, and the ailshaft would be the same diameter as currently run. If they wanted to mount the driver in the middle for safety resons they would have.

[Pro Racer]

Originally Posted by Racenut

Not true, the size of the transmission tunnel is not really different to present cars so does not make much difference. As far as I know they are still using the existing bellhousing, and the ailshaft would be the same diameter as currently run. If they wanted to mount the driver in the middle for safety resons they would have.

you can't just unbolt a bellhousing off a Holinger and stick it there because the new tailshaft would be different to the way a Hollinger input shaft would be.

even if you entertain for 1 second you could just use a Hollinger bellhousing (or as actually is the case the custom bellhousing) the tunnel could narrow out after the bellhousing to be narrower where the seat bolts. even go look at your car where the tail shaft runs through from the console back the tunnel is alot smaller then at the front where it fattens and highers up to fit the transmission. now with the custom bellhousing being smaller then a Hollinger 6 speed they can narrow the tunnel.

[Momus]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

Are they torque tube, or tailshaft?

Is the clutch engine end or transaxle end?

Clutch remains on the engine and is supported by a quill shaft and a housing.
The drive to the transaxle comes from the rear of the clutch quill and is via a short, hollow driveshaft machined from a solid bar of 300M

[JC Ohope]

The look of the 2013 E class has been revealed:



Looks good to me, should be even better after SBR/Erebus have had a go at it

Source: Caradvice.com.au