Time for Ferrari to make a decision?

[Mr V]

Before the race, Mark Blundell stated that now was the time for Ferrari to back one of it's drivers to go for the title. At that time, Kimi was ahead of Felipe by one solitary point.

Now the race is over and Felipe has turned the tables on Kimi, again by one solitary point, but more importantly, cut the gap to Lewis from 21 points (before the race started) to 15 points.

Is one solitary point enough to decide which driver gets the nod to go for the title?

Whilst i'm not in favour of a possible decision having to be made, i can see the point of it, but i'd prefer one (Ferrari) driver to have a bigger margin over the other before the decision was made.

So......

Is it time for Ferrari to make the call.

Who should it be?

(Any chance on a poll as to who should be given the oppertunity mods? )

[JeremySmith]

I think it's too soon to tell Mr V..one point separates the two of them..I think Ferrari will wait this one out..

[Knowlesy]

It's a tough situation to manage really.

I do believe that they should let both drivers go at it because, let's face it, they are pretty much level pegging. But this would be to the detriment of their drivers championship assault possibly.

But I tend to think that Ferrari are of the mindset right now where they are thinking "let's go for the constructors title, which is within easy reach, and then see what happens in the drivers championship after some great results in the final five or six races".

FWIW, I think McLaren are the ones who are in a better position to start managing the drivers championship, but again it's only five points and there is the small matter of the simmering Alonso/Hamilton rivalry!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I think McLaren and Ferrari would both love to be in a position to "order" one of their drivers into a tail gunner role to a perspective champion.

But at this stage it's really too close to call, all four drivers if allowed to go at it could still win the championship, though one poor result from anyone at this stage could make or break it for them...from Hamilton's point of view he'll be hoping that Turkey today was his poor result.

Let them race !!

[duke_toaster]

I think McLaren need to make a decision, unless anything happens off track in the Stepneygate/Pitstopgate things, realistically it's best to favour the driver who is currently leading.

But for Ferrari, they might have to throw caution to the wind and get both of them to "win or bin" for the WCC unless there is point docking - which could happen. WDC is too close to call for the Ferrari drivers, they should make that decision after Monza.

[dtype38]

If Ferrari follow the boss's orders and finish 1-2 for the rest of the season then they'll share the 90 points. With no team orders lets say they share the wins 3-2 (ie worst case for maximising points). If Filipe gets the 3 wins he'll be on 115, Kimi on 112. If Kimi gets the 3 wins then it would be Kimi 114, Filipe 113.

Now Lets say that Lewis finishes third in every race. That would give him another 30 points putting him on a total of 114.

That would suggest that so long as both Ferrari's finish 1st and 2nd, then so long as it isn't 3 wins to Kimi, 2 wins to Filipe, then they're guaranteed the drivers championship. That means no need for team orders until the last round. And if Lewis fails to get 3rd every time, then no need for Ferrari to have team orders at all.

So, certainly no need for team orders now, and no need to consider them until Ferrari fail to get a 1-2. Which could be the next round of course, so we'd have to think about it again then.

[Fish_Flake]

This year is just a ridiculous and improbable championship scenario. There is just no way to tell any of these drivers to give way to their teammates and sacrifice their own championship hopes. McLaren can't tell the twice-defending World Champion to give up when he is only five points out of the lead; they can't tell their other driver to give up, because he's the guy everyone else is chasing. Ferrari's in an even worse position. Massa and Raikkonen have the same number of wins and podium finishes. Massa has more poles, but Raikkonen has more fastest laps. Raikkonen is the de jure team leader, but Massa has seniority within the organization. There is also the cloud of the Constructors' Championship looming over the teams' heads. With an appeal over the Hungary results hanging in the balance, no one knows whether the gap between the two teams is nine points or twenty-four. The only strategy for either team as far as the Constructors' Championship is concerned is to keep pushing as hard as possible, which is something that one of their drivers cannot do if team orders are put into the place. We're all going to have to wait and see what happens over the course of the next two races, the Stepneygate appeal, and the protest of the Hungaroring ruling before the championship picture becomes anything close to clear.

[Inigo Montoya]

Let them race. May the best driver win. Haven't had to call team orders yet, so why do it now? I can't see them taking each other out whilst in the heat of battle. As for the silver cars... I'm not so sure... its a pretty cold in the McLaren garage, and both of those egos are capable of anything.

[NAC]

What's the point of this thread? They have no option but to race. Team orders aren't alowed

[Gt_R]

Essentially, drivers and the team have to know what they want. To back one driver and go on to win both championships, or to have a fair fight and largely possibly let a rival run away with both.

Ferrari is now playing catch-up with not many races left. They can barely afford to let their 2 drivers just go ahead with taking turns in front of each other... because it will be stupid to think that Lewis/Alonso will not win another race again this season.

Partly, the fault lie with Kimi, because he had the speed over Massa this weekend, in my opinion. But once again, he made errors in the qualifyings that result in him being stuck behind Massa. Otherwise, he'd be 3 points clear of Massa and with a good chance of hauling Lewis in.

Being this close, perhaps they should just throw a coin, or base on number of race wins. Something which drivers will know is a decision out of luck/past performance and not out of bias, and accept it.

[JohnSSC]

This is a tough call! I can see needing to make a push for the WDC, as there are so few races left. Based on points, well one sure is not a lot as V noted. Massa may not have been as quick as Kimi (but not a whole lot less so) but over the season he seems to have been a little more consistent.

Whether that is enough to pick one over the other, I don't know. At this point I think they just have to keep doing things the same as they have been. If nothing else, the higher the Ferraris finish, the more likely it means points will be taken away from the McLarens.

If everyone thought last season's race for the WDC was tight, this season is just crazy tight!

[Nicholosophy]

I hope that Ferarri let them fight it out until it's only possible for one of them to win the championship. It would be good to watch.

If they are one and two in the championship though, I would hope it would be fight to death. If the drivers dump it in the ditch then it's their fault...

[Armco Bender]

No - No - No - No - No - No - Yes.

[BootsOntheSide]

Indeed, if Kimi takes 3 wins and 2 seconds, with Lewis third every time, both Kimi and Lewis would have 114 points but Kimi would win on countback (most wins). So technically, Ferrari don't need to make a decision yet. It's hard to know which Ferrari driver will be on top this season, as both have had days when they've totally underperformed. On talent I'd give Kimi the edge, but he's failed to maximise that this year - he should have taken pole and then probably the win yesterday, had a run of poor displays early in the season, and continues to be something of a car-breaker. Massa is the incumbent and has used Michael's support. The situation could be similar to Repsol Honda in MotoGP last year, with Massa as Hayden and Raikkonen as Pedrosa - long term Kimi should be the lead man, but circumstances have suited Massa slightly more this year.

[Bononi]

From what I've heard yesterday, Ferrari is focused on team results and will decide which driver is priority on a race-by-race basis. That would mean that they can come in the last race without effectively having a #1 in the team. Unless one of the drivers screw up a race and the other gets a good advantage, they won't make a decision. One point gap isn't enough for a change.

[Marbot]

Todt says they're free to fight.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61840

[Mr V]

I have to admit i like this new Ferrari approach to inter-team racing

[Bononi]

What I said !

[maltafan]

Originally Posted by NAC

What's the point of this thread? They have no option but to race. Team orders aren't alowed

Did I hear that someone was given orders not to overtake after the last pitstop? or maybe it was an agreement, instead of an order!

[Bononi]

Agreements and orders were always part of the teams strategies in the history of F1. There's even a tragic story about this...

[bestfit]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Agreements and orders were always part of the teams strategies in the history of F1. There's even a tragic story about this...

Which is?

[Born Racer]

I guess he's talking about Gilles Villeneuve and Didier Pironi at Imola 1982. They should never have made such a silly agreement anyway. They should have raced each other.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I have to admit i like this new Ferrari approach to inter-team racing

It makes a nice change after 10 years of total Schumacher dominance.

BUT they may have to put all their eggs in one basket if they want to ensure that their drivers don't just keep taking points off each other. Fair enough, IF they finish 1-2 in all the remaining races one of them would win the title, but that's assuming that they're totally dominant at all the remaining tracks. It hasn't been the case this season that one team has had the beating of the other on every type of circuit, so I think we're fairly certain to see McLaren come back at them, giving Hamilton and Alonso the advantage again. For the constructors' championship, it doesn't matter which driver wins as long as they finish 1-2. If they want the drivers' title, I think they have to pick one.

(But that's not to say that I'd be able to make a decision on who that driver should be! I think Raikkonen's the better driver, but Massa's results this season would make it difficult to dismiss him as a challenger for the WDC.)

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I guess he's talking about Gilles Villeneuve and Didier Pironi at Imola 1982. They should never have made such a silly agreement anyway. They should have raced each other.

Exactly.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

It makes a nice change after 10 years of total Schumacher dominance.

I couldn't think of a better start for the post-TGF era !