Brabham BT21

[James Murray]

My dad has the history of this car, I will ask him. From memory it was the first car to have willans harnesses installed by J Fenning. It was always a Twincam F Libre from new, I don't recall it ever racing in f2, just club racing and then hillclimbing by a guy called Harvey Hodgson from Blackpool. Original colours were the same as works Titan F3 cars. Ted put my dad on to it in about 1987 and he bought it from Mr Hodgson as rolling chassis with Hewland mk 5 gearbox.

[Ted Walker]

Roger. I told you all this months ago when I gave you some photos. You should repaint it metallic blue as it was when owned by Stockbridge Racing .( John Fenning)

[rbracing]

Hello James,
Thanks for the confirmation of much of the informatiom given to me by Ted W. I briefly met your father at Silverstone last October. I hope to be able to find time to contact him as I have his race results etc with the car. I have considered repainting the car but your comparison with the works Titans confirmed what I feared it might be mistaken for.
It is the period of ownership prior to John Fenning that is unclear. That is 1. Tony Griffiths. 2. John Brown. 3. John Ravescroft. 4. Frank Williams. A lot of changes of ownership in a very short period!
Many thanks for your interest.
Regards

[Steve Wilkinson]

I assume - who was it that said never assume? - that it was a mistake when you listed 'John Ravescroft' as one of the owners? It was in deed JOHN RAVENSCROFT who shared the car with his dad Arthur.

BT21A-9 was used by the Ravenscrofts throughout 1971. At the end of the season it was sold to Rodger Hartley who used the car during both 1972 and 1973. It then passed out of the Sprint and Hillclimb disciplines or at least the competitive reaches.

[Teretonga]

The Graham Harvey BT 21 that went to NZ was also painted in the Titan colours when it ran in it's first season in NZ. I had the idea that it was a second hand 21A but the details here seem yo be different.

[spook]

At the Historic Races at Queensland Raceway last week-end, a BT-21C was advertised for sale as:- "1968 Brabham BT21C, ex-Phillipe de Lespernay (USA), ex-Russ Baldwin (USA), unwanted restoration project."

Can anyone shed any light on this car or it's history.

What engine/gearbox should it have?

Thanks

[allenbrown]

Maybe T54 can tell us more?

Allen

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Maybe T54 can tell us more?
Allen

Does he post here, or only in The Other Place?

[allenbrown]

You may be right David. I swap about so much I sometimes lose track.

[Bryan Miller]

Spook,
Who has the car advertised , so I can try and keep records up to date , I know of a Russell Baldwin from Newcastle [ N.S.W. ] who had/has the Proton, an Errol Richardson built BT23B replica badly damaged many years ago when a radius rod pulled out , but that car is local only.
Bryan Miller.

[spook]

Bryan, I only have a name and phone number - would rather not post this information until the identity of the car is confirmed.

If you send me a PM, I'll send you the contact details.

[Bryan Miller]

Spook,
Will enquire now that I have a name , the penny drops from a conversation with the gentleman a few years ago.will advise .
Bryan.

[spook]

Can anyone help with contact details/history/fame of "Phillipe de Lespernay" or "Russ Baldwin" ?.

[Ted Walker]

Phillip de Lespernay goes under the handle of T54 on the Atlas TNF site.

[allenbrown]

Hi spook

I have contact details for Philippe de Lespinay (note spelling) but your PM folder is full so I can't send them. Please email me at allen@oldracingcars.com.

Allen

[John Lindsay]

Hi, I am John Lindsay and am restoring a BT 21 which was imported to the US in 1967 or 1968 and has not had the chassis number identified yet. It was bought in the UK with a fuel injected SCA and Hewland 6 speed .I understood it was hillclimbed. In 1970 it was the US FC national champion driven by Mike Rand.
I thought some Canadian results would help.This is from RPM, The History of Auto Racing in Quebec 1970.

Le Circuit Continental Formula B
St Jovite Aug 1, 1970

2 # 75 Alan Lader BT 29 Fred Opert
3 # 57 John Marshall Brabham Team Sury
4 # 36 Matt Spitzley Brabham Spritzford Racing
6 # 71 Nick Craw BT 29 Fred Opert
7 # 67 G Baker BT 29 Graham Baker MT
9 # 5 B Robertson Brabham Fred Opert
12 # 72 Evan Noyes BT 29 Fred Opert
14 # 7 Randy Lewis Brabham Randy Lewis
17 # 15 K Husband BT 29 K Husband
19 # 41 Bruce Jenson BT 21 C JenMac Racing
20 # 38 Fred Harris BT 29 Fred Harris
DNF # 59 Sandy Shefard BT 29 Sandy Shefard
DNF # 32 Al Justason BT 23 F Al Justason
DNF # 10 John R Babchek BT 21 C Babchek Racing
DNF # 54 Randy Fraser BT 29 Fred Opert
DNF # 11 Syd Demosky BT 29


Le Circuit Formula B
St Jovite Trans Am Aug 2, 1970

1 # 5 B Robertson BT 29
8 Al Justason BT 23 F
9 B Fox BT29

[Bryan Miller]

JRL,

Welcome aboard.
Sounds like it would have been an F2 car in U.K/Europe , but the 1 litre F2 stopped at the end of 1966 , to be replaced with the 1600cc FVA cars in 1967 , so with not many F2 BT21 cars out in 1966 we may have a chance of figuring out whose it was in period.
Most of the 21's would have been F3 , but Chris or Ted may have other information.

Bryan.

[Neptune]

Bryan,

The special case of the SCCA 1100cc FC cars converted from FIA spec I would think were primarily F3 cars. Like my Modus, the brakes, Mk g'box, wheel widths etc were more condusive to the conversion than a F2 car would be. Most F2 cars came over here to become FB cars w/ carbed 1600 twin-cams.

John,

Hi and welcome to the group. Good to have another familiar voice on the list. Have you contacted Mike Rand about the car. My car was Mike's mount 10 years later in F Continental and his earlier Modus served him well in 1977. Mike still had a nice combined file on the pair of Modus, including some of the research he'd done to determine they were good cars. He may well have a file on your car too.

Roger Sieling, Ohio

[John Lindsay]

Thanks for the warmreception.
Mike was very helpful supplying some pictures and stats. he raced the car for Springdell Racing ,which was Chuck Schroedel and Joe Grimaldi who also had an Brabham BT 18 with an SCA . My car was converted to an FB in 1971 with a TC etc.
Bryan is correct about the F2 cars before 1967 as they had MAE /SCA etc and Hewlands and wider tires.I'm having the same problem with a Cooper T75 (?) that had an SCA that raced in Canada in 1969/70 as a FB. This would be a 1965 car or maybe a 1966 one. The rivets are still there for the chassis plate but no plate.
Its too bad that a lot of chasis plates disappeared , I assume to avoid taxes when they were shipped.
There were a few Modus Atlantics owned in Canada.Actually one sold on E bay last year
John

[Neptune]

John,

Are you sure you're not thinking of a GRD that was way out in Newfoundland or somewhere equally as remote? If you are correct about Modus in Canada, do you have any names or where they are?

Roger

Roger

[Bryan Miller]

John,

Does the frame have the AM number still on it .??
Any idea who purchased the car from the U.K and from whom.??

A Modus on ebay , that's sad. Should be a law against it . Racing cars deserve much better.

Bryan.

[John Lindsay]

Bryan
The AM number isnot there but Mike Rand says he was not surprised at that. While rereading a Competition Press , Jan 23,1971for the umpteenth time I may have found an ad for my car
Brabham BT 21 B , 10" and 8" wheels, Hewland 5 speed, Lucas Downdraft , won last NE National ( SCCA) of 1970. $ 4195.00
Joe Grimaldi
The Race Shop
239 Greenwood Ave
Midland NJ
The results show that Mike Rand won the race therefore probably the same car. i was told by Chuck Schrodel (Springdel Racing)that Grimaldi had bought the car while in England in 1968 and that the car had been advertised in the racing press. It was raced by Schroedel in 1968.
In the same issue Springdel has BT 9- 15 advertised for $ 1250.00

Roger
I think you are right about the GRD , I saw it advertised here as a Modus but it was in Newfoundland.

John

[Neptune]

John,
And I think you're right too. I think it may have been advertised as a GRD Modus or something like that. There is a thread on this list about the car or maybe it is the Lotus 19 owned by the same fellow who bought it.

Roger

[Al Murray]

Hi, While searching Goggle I came across this thread and would like to join in as I just purchased a Brabham BT21 AM 177, no tag. I would like to find out what the history is on this car and a possible chassis number. I picked up this car in Los Angeles last Wednesday and headed directly to Wayne Mitchell's for a quick lookover. The fellow I purchased the car from, purchased this car from someone in Riverside, Ca. That is all I know at this time. The car suppposedly has been in storage for over 30 years still on Firestone Supersports. Tim Osborne (BT21-9 AM175) was up to my shop on Sunday and gave me all of his research material. Interesting that my car, Tim's and another car from LA, BT-21A-7, AM227 (race-cars.com,archive) all have the same roll bar conversion. My car has the Wayne Mitchell front upper link/trailing arm (BT-23) conversion. The original wobblies are 8" front and 9"rear. F-3 Girlings all around. Everything else is basic BT21. No motor or gear box. I plan on a Lotus twincam and Mk8 hewland which I already have. Any help would be appreciated. I thought I was coming up with some info till I found this thread. I am amazed at the depth of information you guys possess. I have already been in correspondence with Allen Brown concerning my 67 Eisert - Harrison Special Indy Car. I started Vintage racing 10 years ago in a Elden PH10 Boat tail. I recently have been driving a Macon MR7B Formula Ford. With a bit of luck, I hope to have the Brabham ready for this racing season. Again thanks for any help you might be able to share. Is there a possibility that with Tim's BT21-9, AM 175 and my AM177, that my car could be BT21-11, Kurt Ahren's car?

Thanks, AL

[Bryan Miller]

Hello and good to have you here.

From info in front of me it is not BT21-10 .
So a definate possibility is BT21-8 or BT21-11.

The name of the person you purchased car from may be of assistance , if the car has not run since circa 1975 or thereabouts we may be able to back track into the U.K.

Bryan.