Alonso - most complete driver in F1

[al_sami]

Seeing him battle in midfield position is somewhat sad. It is clear that he is the most complete driver on the grid.

While Raikkonen might be a WC, he is not in the same class as Alonso. Kimi lacks in a lot of things, he is not a team motivator, or very good at development, he is probably the most boring WC to date. I think Badoer and Gene are the reasons why Ferrari are not going backwards in development.

Kimi Imo only took the WC last year as a result of Mclaren drivers taking points off each other.

I personally rate Heidfield higher than Kimi who I still feel should have got teh Mclaren seat in 2002 after Hakkinen retired.

Lewis is still learning and as we saw yesterday he is good when he is at front or if the car has a huge perf advantage he can get by and overtake.

We need to see Alonso in a Ferrari, then we will see the best driver in F1 in the best car in F1

Hope Massa is replaced end of the year with someone who deserves a top car!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by al_sami

Seeing him battle in midfield position is somewhat sad. It is clear that he is the most complete driver on the grid.

He's certainly one of the best, and he's driving the socks off that Renault, but I'd say that there is a question mark over his temperament. And let's not forget that he was beaten in 2007 (albeit by one point) by another current F1driver in equal equipment, which also casts doubts over his superiority.

[Knowlesy]

There is certainly the doubt over his temperemant from 2007. Pressure from within the same team doesn't sit well with him, a small psychological problem. It is curious, because against people in other cars he never, ever breaks.

Give him the backing and you'd struggle to find anyone better.

[TFHarv]

I have to disagree with your view here I think that his "psychological" problem with team status makes him totally wrong for top teams who want to contend for Constructors championships as well as WDC as was all too plainly seen with his year at Mclaren. Yes he can drive a car and because he has clear number one status in Renault he is driving the socks off the car to try and get some points.

However if the car doesn't improve and he ends up mid placed each race I think you will see his temperament kick in and with no second driver to blame he will only take out his frustrations elsewhere. ( Does no one think having a team mate over a second slower consistently in the "same" car is not orchestrated )

He has the speed but not the self control to return to the top as a true champion.

[al_sami]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

There is certainly the doubt over his temperemant from 2007. Pressure from within the same team doesn't sit well with him, a small psychological problem. It is curious, because against people in other cars he never, ever breaks.

Give him the backing and you'd struggle to find anyone better.

I agree with that point. Ron handled last year in a terrible way, yes it rattled him that he was not getting what he deserved as WC. I still believe that he should have had priority over Hamilton. MS, Senna all demanded No 1 status in a team, why should Alonso settle for less.

Even Hamilton is No 1 this year at Mclaren, though they wont admit to it.

I cant wait to see him back at the front of the field and show a master class perfromance just like MS showed since the mid 90's. Alonso will become another leged in his own right. He is a very gifted driver with few negatives (apart from his temprement)

[Born Racer]

He is a brilliant driver, but the extraordinary circumstances of last year brought out some worrying traits.

He could have stayed at McLaren and on equal terms have battled what looks like potentially one of the best drivers for the championship. He has the talent to beat Hamilton if he had applied himself, but his paranoia led him to take the other route and go back to the team where he said he felt most happy.

Will he still be happy if the Renault never improves sufficiently for him to win? I think he has a drive elsewhere lined up. At least, that;s his plan.

[al_sami]

Originally Posted by TFHarv

I have to disagree with your view here I think that his "psychological" problem with team status makes him totally wrong for top teams who want to contend for Constructors championships as well as WDC as was all too plainly seen with his year at Mclaren. Yes he can drive a car and because he has clear number one status in Renault he is driving the socks off the car to try and get some points.

However if the car doesn't improve and he ends up mid placed each race I think you will see his temperament kick in and with no second driver to blame he will only take out his frustrations elsewhere. ( Does no one think having a team mate over a second slower consistently in the "same" car is not orchestrated )

He has the speed but not the self control to return to the top as a true champion.

He is a more deserved champion than Kimi will ever be. Kimi has lucked into teh best car and often last year was trailing. If fernando was in the ferrari he would have wraped the the champion mid season.

[Teretonga]

Alonso is quick but near the end of 2006 was complaining that the team was not supporting him in the quest for his second title....
Last year it was the same sort of complaint so he went back to the previous team where he said he was happier....
Now he says the form is no surprise to him...

Where he is is his choice, not the result of what someone else has done to him...

Incidentally Senna didn't demand exclusive treatment as much as he entered a team where Prost was the centrepiece and then bit by bit swung the team around to seeing him as the centrepiece. That is what destabilised Prost and caused him to wander off to ferrari where he did the same to Mansell then did an Alonso at the end of his second yearand was kicked out after criticising the the team!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by al_sami

MS, Senna all demanded No 1 status in a team, why should Alonso settle for less.

It's a good point, but not entirely true. Senna was quite prepared to go up against Prost in equal equipment.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by al_sami

He is a more deserved champion than Kimi will ever be. Kimi has lucked into teh best car and often last year was trailing.

The Champion is he who finishes the season with the most points, and both Kimi and Alonso earned that status. Deserving doesn't really come into it.

Plus, rather than 'lucking in' to the best car, Kimi was chosen by the Scuderia because of the ability he showed whilst driving for McLaren.

[Born Racer]

he was not getting what he deserved as WC. I still believe that he should have had priority over Hamilton.

But Hamilton was soon ahead of him the championship! If he had been given number 1 status over Hamilton, Lewis would've been denied the chance of the championship and we all saw he was capable of doing it.

You imply that his world championships should have lent him a priority number 1 status, and this is your personal outlook, so we'll have to agree to disagree there. I like the fact they were given equal opportunities to win, because as we saw, both drivers were capable of doing it.

I'm interested to know what features you consider to make him the most complete. Some teams may now feel he cannot be trusted in cerain respects, and whilst his talent will most likely still afford him opportunities with most teams, in a scenario in which a team hypothetically has a choice between him or an equally fast but less fragile driver, they may just choose that other person. It could be said that this untrustworthiness reduces how complete he is.

[Knowlesy]

I believe deep down the plan was for McLaren to give Alonso priority to go for the championship, prior to the start of 2007.

They didn't bank on Hamilton being so good so quickly I suppose. And in the end, they simply couldn't back either driver on a performance basis. They were very evenly matched indeed.

It was a shame neither got the title in the end because those were the two standout drivers in 2007.

[ralf fan]

Alonso is a very good driver.
Berating Kimi is not the way to prove it however. Kimi maybe boring etc. etc. But there is no doubting his talents when he gets in a race car. This at the end is all that matters. I have said the same about Alonso, when people criticized his attitude. What matters most is what they do on track. And quite obviously Alonso and Raikkonen do a superb job most often than not.

[Sodemo]

Wasn't it Prost who blocked Senna's move to Williams in 1993 or words to that effect? I remember one of them blocked another one's move to "their" team fearing they would beat them.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Wasn't it Prost who blocked Senna's move to Williams in 1993 or words to that effect? I remember one of them blocked another one's move to "their" team fearing they would beat them.

Yes, Prost vetoed Senna as his team-mate for 1993, which was famously alluded to by Senna at the Donington '93 press conference. However, you can hardly blame Prost for not wanting to relive the turmoil the pair of them went through at McLaren. Plus, he'd already beaten Senna to the title in equal equipment back in '89, so it's not as if he had anything left to prove.

Senna once vetoed Derek Warwick as his team-mate whilst at Lotus, which is as good a compliment as you can get, I reckon!

[alonso11]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

he was beaten in 2007 (albeit by one point) by another current F1driver in equal equipment

they both scored 109 points that season.
equal equipment ... probably.
equal treatment ... im not sure.

And now sports:


In 1999 there was a Hungarian driver (Tamas Illes) in Open Euro Nissan so one of the Hungarian channels shown some footage of the races. I was like 12 so Im not sure the track, but it was raining like mad, Fernando was leading by a mile, he actually started to lap others (wich is quite unusual in one-make formulae) and hit one of the backmakers ... his front-wing fell off and he went thru the gravel ... you thought he retired then and there right ? He re-joined the race ... still in torrential rain .. no front wing and he was going at the pace that made others look as they were parking!! he actually kept on lapping cars with no front wing!! .. it was one of the most amazing things I've seen in motorsports.

A year latter I was lucky enough to see him in live, putting one of the most financialy troubled team's Astromega's car 3rd on the grid in Budapest and he became my favorite driver there and then.

Since he is my favorite its a pretty good chance that Im biased and for that very reason Im not going into the usual Nando vs Schumi/Hamilton/Kimi/whoever battle of words. I also think that one of the bigest measurements a champion can be measured by is the opposition he had to deal with and guys like Schumacher and Hamilton are no jokes, I have every respect for them, I wouldnt find much sense in arguing who are the best or most complete, all I can say is Fernando is something else.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by alonso11

they both scored 109 points that season.

You're quite right.

My mistake.

[Marbot]

Perhaps "the most complete driver in F1" would still have a seat with McLaren this season.

[al_sami]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

But Hamilton was soon ahead of him the championship! If he had been given number 1 status over Hamilton, Lewis would've been denied the chance of the championship and we all saw he was capable of doing it.

You imply that his world championships should have lent him a priority number 1 status, and this is your personal outlook, so we'll have to agree to disagree there. I like the fact they were given equal opportunities to win, because as we saw, both drivers were capable of doing it.

I'm interested to know what features you consider to make him the most complete. Some teams may now feel he cannot be trusted in cerain respects, and whilst his talent will most likely still afford him opportunities with most teams, in a scenario in which a team hypothetically has a choice between him or an equally fast but less fragile driver, they may just choose that other person. It could be said that this untrustworthiness reduces how complete he is.

My personal view of the mess at Mclaren was that he was provoked into acting the way he did. The environment must have been harsh and full of politics behind the scenes.

While Hamilton decided to keep corpotate and full of smiles and support for his pay masters, Alonso spoke his mind. I respect him for that, I would have done the same if I was getting screwed over by a team or person.

I know you lot think that Alonso was the demon, the bad guy who destabalised Mclaren. We will have to agree to disagree.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by al_sami

I know you lot think that Alonso was the demon, the bad guy who destabalised Mclaren. We will have to agree to disagree.

I disagree. Hamilton destabilised McLaren and unfortunately Alonso couldn't deal with it.

I don't think Alonso was the bad guy, but for someone of his status he could of handled it a bit better.

[LeLutin]

Originally Posted by al_sami

My personal view of the mess at Mclaren was that he was provoked into acting the way he did. The environment must have been harsh and full of politics behind the scenes.

While Hamilton decided to keep corpotate and full of smiles and support for his pay masters, Alonso spoke his mind. I respect him for that, I would have done the same if I was getting screwed over by a team or person.

I know you lot think that Alonso was the demon, the bad guy who destabalised Mclaren. We will have to agree to disagree.

I'm with you.

But, none of us will ever know for certain.

[Dead-Eye]

He may possibly be the 'best' or fastest driver, but certainly not the most complete one. The most complete driver would be fast and a team player. Alonso proved last year that he's only one of those things.

[tristancliffe]

I actually think Alonso is the most over-rated world champion ever. He's one of the best drivers on the grid, but that standard isn't all that high at the moment anyway with too many has-beens clinging onto worthless F1 careers.

[LeLutin]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

I actually think Alonso is the most over-rated world champion ever. He's one of the best drivers on the grid, but that standard isn't all that high at the moment anyway with too many has-beens clinging onto worthless F1 careers.

LOL!!!

I want...no...I NEED a list!

[Mr V]

I think that Fernando is driving better at the moment than at anyother time in his F1 career, given the equipment he has got.

(2001 at Minardi excepted maybe).