Ferrari team orders ?

Marbot · 28 Mar 2008, 11:36 (Ref:2163763)

Has Massa become the new 'Barrichello' ? Has Ferrari swapped one team leader for another ? What does this mean for 'Fred' or anyone else who wants to drive a 'red' car for that matter ? Is it too early for team orders ?

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/n...eat_massa.html

Greenback · 28 Mar 2008, 11:44 (Ref:2163770)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Has Massa become the new 'Barrichello' ? Has Ferrari swapped one team leader for another ? What does this mean for 'Fred' or anyone else who wants to drive a 'red' car for that matter ? Is it too early for team orders ?

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/n...eat_massa.html

Didnt Ferrari did the same thing at Interlagos last year? For me thats a no brainer, especially after seeing what happen in Australia.

what about Lewis? He is being offered the Mclaren LM didnt he?

Cougar · 28 Mar 2008, 12:01 (Ref:2163779)

I recall Massa having traffic at some point during or after his outlap? I might be wrong. Also since when does a quick inlap by a driver prove team orders?

CDK 7 · 28 Mar 2008, 12:17 (Ref:2163788)

[quote=martyn bott]Has Massa become the new 'Barrichello' ? Has Ferrari swapped one team leader for another ? What does this mean for 'Fred' or anyone else who wants to drive a 'red' car for that matter ?

short quick answer yes

garcon · 28 Mar 2008, 12:22 (Ref:2163791)

Yes, I reckon the team ordered Massa to spin out and collect no points, just to endure Kimi had no immediate competition for his win.

Knowlesy · 28 Mar 2008, 12:25 (Ref:2163793)

I think it is pretty obvious that Ferrari would be behind Kimi now anyways. He's the champion and he is clearly superior to Massa now, who appears to be in some form of daze: he is driving like he's on non-prescription drugs.

It looks more like Kimi just ensured a solid qualifying lap and drove when it mattered really. Massa was probably patting himself on the back on Saturday and will now be completely destroyed. I'd wager he'll never beat Kimi again, without some form of mechanical gremlin.

alonso11 · 28 Mar 2008, 12:32 (Ref:2163798)

dont have much respect for Massa since he tried to make his latest spin look like it was some misterious car failure.

If you spin have the guts to admit it straight away: guys, I c*cked it up

If you crash into another driver have the quality of a gentleman and appolgize

As for team-orders though, unfortunetly its true. In 2007 they had equal status and Massa played fair by giving the first place to Kimi in Brazil, ironicaly enough he also accepted the no2 status by doing so. Ferrari have special respect for their champions and the first pit-stop in Malaysia was truly MS-RB-like indeed. Ferrari ought the have a number1 its the nature of their structure and if they have to back someone then sure as hell they wont be backing they guy crashing once and spinning twice in 2 races. Having a little less Todt involvement in the team doesnt help Massa's case either. Will be more than surprised if he emerges as a title challanger from where he stands now.... but lets wait Bahrain, a track where he has a rather impressing record.

Kirk · 28 Mar 2008, 12:32 (Ref:2163800)

Every time we see a pass like this against a teammate, especially at McLaren or Ferrari, we will get stories from the media of team orders yadda yadda yadda.... What I witnessed was an excellent effort by Kimi (on the track) and his pit strategy and efficient crew to gain the few seconds needed to gain that spot. It was executed to perfection, and if it was anyone else but Massa it wouldn't be given a second thought.
I thoroughly believe that at this early stage in the season it is every man for himself on the track, and for all teams.

Kirk · 28 Mar 2008, 12:38 (Ref:2163803)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I'd wager he'll never beat Kimi again, without some form of mechanical gremlin.

Even bet? I'll take it!

**Born Racer** · 28 Mar 2008, 13:17 (Ref:2163826)

A bit of a nothing comment from Gary Anderson there. Ferrari may well have a favourite, but I saw nothing in particular in Malaysia to suggest this was any more the case there than usual.

Pro Racer · 28 Mar 2008, 13:23 (Ref:2163827)

i think they would be more behind Kimi but at the same time they would want Massa right behind.

Kebab · 28 Mar 2008, 13:36 (Ref:2163841)

We should not ignore that Kimi did 5 consecutive fastest sectors just before pitting the first time around (that is my recollection anyway) ...

Spritle · 28 Mar 2008, 13:41 (Ref:2163845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Has Massa become the new 'Barrichello' ?

No the new Barrichello is actually Heikki Kovichello, Lewis' lap dog.

MrTTraces · 28 Mar 2008, 13:48 (Ref:2163851)

They don't have team orders, they simply 'informally suggest' to their drivers which order to come in.

Chiefy · 28 Mar 2008, 14:02 (Ref:2163864)

I don't think there is a new Barrichello of which to speak. Kovy has done okay so far and will continue to improve throughout his maiden season with McMerc. Massa has enough support from Ferrari to do a job if he's up to it, or else Raikkonen will beat him on merit most weekends. The way Barrichello was railroaded by the Michael Schumacher Express will not be rivalled in F1 by another driver for some years to come.

Kirk · 28 Mar 2008, 14:16 (Ref:2163877)

Agreed Chiiefy.

Unfortunately however, the cynicism that was created by that situation will linger for a long time.

Ralf's Girl · 28 Mar 2008, 14:57 (Ref:2163902)

I think Ferrari probably are going to be favouring Kimi this year, but it's hardly surprising considering he's their current champion. Massa really removed the problem in Malaysia by binning it halfway through the race.

Is it too early for team orders? Yes, but they can do what they want - that's a matter for Ferrari to decide. I personally think it's less interesting knowing that one driver in a team isn't allowed to beat the other, but I don't think they give a monkey's what I think...

Red Bulldog · 28 Mar 2008, 15:18 (Ref:2163917)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Has Massa become the new 'Barrichello' ?

I think Massa has been groomed as a #2 driver from the start, Ferrari think the best way to win the WDC and the Constructor's championship is to have an exceptional #1 driver & a good #2 driver (and they are probably right).
However, the #2 has to finish in the points!

steve_r · 28 Mar 2008, 16:16 (Ref:2163964)

Massa was not fast enough when it mattered

or

Kimi was fast enough when it did matter.

Either way, personally I did not see anything to suggest team orders taking place. Overtaking by having a quick lap or two whilst the car you were chasing has pitted is one of the most common ways of positions changing now.

Gt_R · 28 Mar 2008, 18:49 (Ref:2164052)

There's always people who will try to put it in a dubious light, but what is Kimi supposed to do? Slow down to let Massa hold to his lead? Or should Ferrari just hold Kimi in his pits for 2 seconds more?

The start of the race is the sign anyone needs that Massa is free to race Kimi, without taking each other out.

What happened in Sepang is not a matter of team orders. Rather, it is just Kimi being fast where it mattered, and Massa showing that he can try, but just not good enough to match Kimi.

As for Rubens, he did say he signed for Ferrari because he is frustrated with mid-field cars. He just wanted a good car which he can win races in. And the likes of Rubens/David/Fisi did win more races than they could otherwise have if they stuck on to other seats. And Massa/Kovy are likely to find themselves ending on the same note.

**Adam43** · 28 Mar 2008, 18:59 (Ref:2164057)

As a general rule Kimi is proving to be faster. That is the key thing here. Invent what you like, but that will be the main reason.

Ferrari will get behind the faster driver earlier than most other teams, as is their right. We know this and there is no problem.

Other teams hold on to the being equal to both drivers as long as they want. We know this and there is no problem.

Some people who like one of these teams or the other try to make out both are exactly the same. To justify something that is unimportant, but they feel is crucial to the existence of man. We know this and it is pointless.

Marbot · 28 Mar 2008, 19:09 (Ref:2164062)

So the general answer to my questions then is.....same old same old.

kartracer41 · 28 Mar 2008, 19:15 (Ref:2164070)

I agree with what Adam said. The difference between this year and last year at Ferrari is that Kimi is not getting used to the car, the team and the Bridgstone tires all at the same time, while Massa was miles ahead of him in comfort with all of that. They may have had Kimi as a #1 at the beginning of last year, but he wasn't able to perform to that level leaving them both appearing as equals for most of the year.

Mr V · 29 Mar 2008, 00:34 (Ref:2164240)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritle

No the new Barrichello is actually Heikki Kovichello, Lewis' lap dog.

That would be why it took Ruben's 23 attempts to beat Michael, Heikki 2 attempt's to beat Lewis

Marbot · 29 Mar 2008, 01:17 (Ref:2164258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

That would be why it took Ruben's 23 attempts to beat Michael

Only because he let him.

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