Not for Hire or Reward

[Bob Pearson]

Does anyone understand the value of putting the above sign on your truck?
My grasp of it was that if the truck owner was carrying racing car(s) which belonged to himself, then such a message clarified that situation and precluded the need to run a tacho and have an operators licence. This theory was quite comfortable in my mind until I noticed that several articulated large transporters were displaying the message when they were carrying cars for "arrive and drive" clients.
So, does anyone know the truth on this one?

[midgetman]

Bob, my understanding is that you're OK and the teams are wrong. They ARE for hire or reward in as much as they are paid to run the cars. In the same way, if Marks & Sparks ran their own lorries they would still need an O licence because the goods are ultimately for profit even though they (M&S) didn't get paid for carrying them.

In fact, a DoT (as it was then) man told me when I enquired about this that if there were a cash prize - even a few quid - he personally would consider it as "for hire or reward". He did say it depended on which side of bed the "wheeltapper" had got out on that day!

[Tim Falce]

It's not to do with tachos or O licences, it's so they can tax them as a private vehicle and pay £195 or whatever it is at the moment.

[joss Ronchetti]

Having a national vehicle logistic company and being fined for non-conformaty I can tell you that you must always have a tacho on anything that is over 3.5 tonnes, or if 3.5 tonnes and towing a trailer you must have a tacho regardless if it is for hire or reward.
Even if you are just towing a car with a single car transporter (flatbed) or a 4x4 and the vehicle that you are towing is not your vehicle and you are doing it for reward you must have a tacho, or at least run a manual tacho to produce to Vosa if stopped.
If you are running anything over 3.5 tonnes you must have at least a 'restricted' operators license.
If you are doing it for hir reward you must at least have a transport manager with the relevent qualifacations and at least a 'national' operators license.
Just contact your local Vosa office to confirm this.

[joss Ronchetti]

While i'm at it if anyone one wants any vehicle moving legally nationwide then contact PRO-Driver for an instant quote and timescale. We transport or drive around a 1000 vehicles per week. Typical costs Monday to Friday: 100 miles postcode to postcode: Driven £75.00 plus VAT and any fuel needed, Transported £150.00 plus VAT, 200 miles postcode to postcode: Driven £127.00 plus VAT and any fuel needed, Transported £250.00 plus VAT
www.pro-driver.org
See us the British International Motorshow at Excel in the Docklands, Stand 110 in the 'Shop Hall' from 23rd July to 3rd August

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by joss Ronchetti

Having a national vehicle logistic company and being fined for non-conformaty I can tell you that you must always have a tacho on anything that is over 3.5 tonnes, or if 3.5 tonnes and towing a trailer you must have a tacho regardless if it is for hire or reward.
Even if you are just towing a car with a single car transporter (flatbed) or a 4x4 and the vehicle that you are towing is not your vehicle and you are doing it for reward you must have a tacho, or at least run a manual tacho to produce to Vosa if stopped.
If you are running anything over 3.5 tonnes you must have at least a 'restricted' operators license.
If you are doing it for hir reward you must at least have a transport manager with the relevent qualifacations and at least a 'national' operators license.
Just contact your local Vosa office to confirm this.

I think you'll find it's anything under 7.5 tonnes gross mass is exempt if it's not for hire and reward, otherwise we would all need tachos towing our own race cars. Plus if I did have to conform to the rules then I would be breaking the law every time I get into my car.

[bdwoody]

joss hows that ruling with campers and a trailer is it any different ?

[Bob Pearson]

Hmm, still not seeing this straight,

If you go onto the VOSA web site anyone can download the tacho exemption form for 7.5 ton vehicles which, when filled out appropriately allows the vehicle to be MOT'd with no working tacho installed.
Actually Road Tax has nothing to do with it, if you go onto the DVLA website it gives the HGV road tax rates and they do not have a variance for the use of the vehicle.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

Actually Road Tax has nothing to do with it, if you go onto the DVLA website it gives the HGV road tax rates and they do not have a variance for the use of the vehicle.

Yes but it is so they can tax the trucks as Private vehicles, not commercial. As far as tachos go there are a lot of them who are driving around without and illegally, much in the same way as a lot of these horse box owners do. It will only take a clamp down by VOSA for a lot of people to come unstuck.

[Cynic]

I had a conversation about with this with a hire company recently. IIRC, under the latest legislation, all new vehicles over 3.5 tonnes gross must be fitted with a tacho, but they are exempt from tacho regs if being used in a private capacity.

[R59]

When I drove the F1 Engine Truck for Cosworth quite a lot of years back, we ran with a disc in the tacho, even though "Not for Hire or Reward" is exempt from Tacho regs. A bit of backside covering in the event of an incident. No disc = licence for Johnny Foreigner (not corrupt at all!) Police to throw you in a cell and concoct some charges.

There is, as has been said, a 7.5T MoT exemption for things like Horseboxes, and Motorhomes built on up to 7.5T chassis, but over 7.5T the Tacho must be fitted, working, and in calibration.

Same rules go for speed limiters. Must be fitted, must be working.

[Greystone]

I have a Leyland DAF 45 7.5 tonnes GVW horsebox taxed as a "Private HGV" (£165 pa IIRC - cheaper than most cars).

The situation is that a Private HGV, like all other vehicles, must have a speedometer fitted. If the only speed indication device is the tachograph then it must have valid seals intact but it does not have to be recalibrated at regular intervals. When it is tested a tachograph exemption form must be completed and handed to the tester although I can't remember the last time that any of them actually bothered to read it. The last tester was more interested in reading the copy of Motor Sport that I had in the cab. If the vehicle is too old to have been originally fitted with a Tachograph, and there are still horse boxes around that are, then a speedometer is sufficient and no Tachograph is required.

There is info on the requirements on some of the equestrian websites such as http://www.horsebox-rescue.co.uk/html/annual_test.html.

Andrew Cherry

[joss Ronchetti]

Originally Posted by bdwoody

joss hows that ruling with campers and a trailer is it any different ?

Hi Woody, according to our Transport Manager if you are towing your racecar with your camper/motorhome then you do not need a tacho fitted.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Tks for the info on this folks - now where does one get the stickers 'Not for hire or reward'? Is there a known supplier?

[Tim Falce]

Eamonn, there's bound to be a print shop near you. If not try www.cadart.com

[Colin McKay]

I had a long conversation with a VOSA officer on this very topic just a few weeks ago. I'll try not to sound like an anorak...

If I tow my trailer with my motorhome (all-up weight about 9 tonnes) I do not need a tacho, nor do I have to specify the vehicle on my O Licence. This is despite the fact that the whole outfit including the car is owned by my company. The exemption is due to the motorhome being classified as a 'living van' for tacho purposes, although it's a 'private HGV' for road tax. I do, however, need a C+E (HGV1) licence to drive it.

If I tow my trailer with my firm's Sprinter van (all-up weight about 5 tonnes) I do need to have a tacho, and at least a B+E licence. The officer cited a case they prosecuted a few years ago where a mechanic at a car dealership rallycrossed at weekends and borrowed his firm's Transit to tow. Because the firm also sponsored his racing and advertised on the car it was judged that the whole enterprise was part of a commercial undertaking, and he was nicked. Seems a bit harsh, but there you go.

Looking around most paddocks (and passing all sorts of dodgy old horseboxes while getting there) I'd be surprised if there wasn't a VOSA clampdown sooner or later, with the number of hauliers going bust at the moment they'll need to find another way to supplement their income!