Seattle Motorsports Park

[tlongman]

Some of may have wondered where I went for the last 6 months or so and why I haven't posted a track for such a long time. Well what happened was my scanner broke and I haven't been able to post any of my hand drawn tracks. During this period I've amassed many tracks and have sorted through them to find those that I feel are the best. Today, my scanner still isn't fixed but I got tired of waiting so I just took my camera and took pictures of the top 5 and decided to post them periodically throughout the next month or so.

Here's the first one. I call it Seattle Motorsports Park as it is to be based in that area of the United States. I feel this is probably the best track I've made. But I'll leave that up to you guys. The front straight and first turn are supposed to be a bit like the 1st turn area at Sebring. After that however it gets drastically different. The run down through turns 2, 3, 4, and 5 is supposed to be a lot like the esses at VIR. From there until turn 9 it is supposed to be very fast and flowing with forest on either side of you, a theme I like to keep in all my tracks. Turns 10, 11, and 12 are all sweeping corners but critical as they lead on to the long run towards the signature turns 15 and 16. At the apex of turn 15 the track drops off and continues downhill through turn 16. This complex could easily be compared to the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. After that the track goes back uphill and crests at the turn in point of turn 19. As you exit turn 19 the major elevation change is finally over. 20, 21, and 22 are pretty straight forward but it leads you to the tight hairpin turn 23. Overall, the track is pretty long at 4.07 miles or 6.54 km. BTW, those grid things on the right are supposed to be the garages for the club members living in the trackside villas by turns 13 and 14. Anyway, I think this is very good but, once again, thats up to you guys. Thoughts?

[crozier74]

WOW! That looks absolutely awesome. Great flow and variety, very similar to a lot of the new 'country club' style tracks cropping up in the US such as Barber and Autobahn. Great work!

[bio]

Superb stuff.

At this track length I bet there's no shortage of overtaking chances.

bio

[Stig]

When I see a track like this, it makes me wonder why somebody like Hermann Tilke actually gets paid millions of dollars to make the same mediocre stuff over and over again while there are so many great designers on these forums going unnoticed. I don't know if I'd say this is your best - I'd have to take another look at all of your past work. But this still looks far and away better than any track I've seen in the US. It's like you took the best elements of Sebring, Road Atlanta, and Laguna Seca for inspiration. Really well done (my favorite part is 2-9).

[Purist]

Stig, trust me, there are tracks in the US to compare with this. Off the top of my head, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, VIR, Road America, and Seattle Int'l Raceway (Pacific Raceway) are all right up there. Sebring is flat, but has great history. They don't run the big cars on the unmolested version of Lime Rock Park anymore, unfortunately. Laguna Seca is very good, but has had the hills and everything else cut back for the bikes. And Sears Point could use a bit more in the way of substantial greenery. Also, if you go north of the border, you will find the masterpieces that are Mosport Park and Mont Tremblant (St. Jovite).

Tlongman, this looks great! I wouldn't touch a thing, and I hope to see more quality work from you on the forum.

[Stig]

I don't think that any of the tracks you mentioned are outright terrible or anything. But I believe that many of the tracks in America are great in one aspect and lacking in another. You mentioned a few examples yourself. No track in the world is perfect, and I could spend a day pointing out the faults I have with any one of them. It's just that circuits overseas tend to push my buttons more than those at home. Maybe saying "far and away better" was a bad choice of words. I just wanted to emphasize that tlongman has come up with a really good design that should go among the ranks of the best in the country in my opinion.

[werner]

'+':
-I like the layout very much. It has al kinds of corners, with exiting kinks and esses, and a few overtakingspots as well, with everything in between.
-You have done a great job thinking about all the 'other' facilties needed at a A-class racing circuit.

'-':
- Some safety-concerns here. Turn 6 and 18 among others are fast corners that need a lot of run-off area, where there now is virtually none.
-I'd replace the bridge between 14 and 15 by a tunnel. This bridge blocks the view of a lot of spectators a lot: without it the owners of the villa's could see the overtaking at 15, and the spectators at 15 the whole stretch from 12 through the kinks at 13 and 14.

BTW, I assume 'GA' means General Admission?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Really nice.

There is obviously a huge amount of thought gone into the layout, what with the inclusion of the different facilities.
I can see what Werner has said about run off at some corners, but to be honest for me, a pencil design like this is about the inferrance of the design rather than specific trees being a little close.
It only takes a few seconds with an eraser to trim the shrubbery as it were.

Looking at the height chart I'm not sure that a tunnel would be an option between T14 and T15. But where a bridge really should be replaced by a tunnel would be on the S/F straight on the exit of the final corner.
For me that bridge would be too close to the exit of the final corner. If you omit some grandstand between T21-22 that would be where a good wide tunnel could be placed supply access to the restaurant etc.

[bio]

Stig,
Tilke deserves credit. Imagine that we could only design tracks if we followed these points of considerations strictly:

- the site is given
- the budget is more or less given
- the track must make profit
- it must get the approval of all the range of local authorities
- there are various other requirements and expectations from many sides.

Let's be fair, what we do here is only part of this all.

But at least we do this part well, take this track as a perfect example of that ))

bio

[Chiefy]

Awesome track. I really like it.

[Purist]

Bio, NONE of the latest generation of F1 tracks (Sepang onward) turn a profit.

There would be plenty of budget for Tilke to put a little less into the buildings in apparent terms, and thus be able to put a lot more into the track itself. The site at Shanghai was hardly flat when they started, and they had ~$300 million to work with; Tilke could have done much better with what he was given.

[Yannick]

Wow, tlongman, you are a master of detail. This is a great drawing.
Learning the track itself should provide quite a challenge for rookies with its length and high number of corners. But it flows well. Three overtaking spots, T1, T15 and T19 are also just what one asks for in a track. And the altitude changes are good, too.

If my (fictional) OtherWorld(ly) Series hadn't gone under in the banking crisis, they'd surely be interested in racing there.

[bio]

Purist,
OK, take out that one single point. I guess what remains is still enough

bio

[werner]

Making a profit ánd adhering to Bernies standards is impossible. Basically you have to deliver everything, and you only get the revenues of one source of income, which are the tickets. (maybe food etc. aswell) Bernie wants the whole circuit to be advertisement-free, so he can sell all the advertising. Offcourse all the vip-passes will be payed to him as well, as is the major part of the TV-money.
But, as you can see at the new tracks, for that one weekend a year he demands buildings and other facilities that leave the most royal palaces or fortune-500 corporate headquarters in its shadow.
Look at Silverstone. If any GP is a succes in terms of ticketsales, it is the Britisch GP. Already on the friday, there were 85k visitors! In total they had 300k over the weekend. Mind you, Silverstonetickets are not really what you call bargains.
And the only way they just break even is offering facilities that Bernie describes as 'sheds'.

To go even more offtopic, indeed the tracks I've got most satisfaction in having drawn them are the ones that are put on an actual existing site. It makesit so much more of a challenge when you also have to think of residents, traffic, whether there is a market, how to place the track in the landscape, whether it will be politically viable etc.

[bio]

OK, I have already retreated regarding the profit issue. I guess there's no need of pushing it further - especially since there is an IMHO superb track above this thread should be about, right?

I started the off-flame, so I guess I should be the one to ask anyone to close it and focus on tlongman's great design.

Sorry for unintentionally overtaking the thread.

bio

[werner]

@SBF:
But where a bridge really should be replaced by a tunnel would be on the S/F straight on the exit of the final corner.

Hmm, I don't have to many problems with that bridge. The corner is very slow, so it does not need that much runof at the exit, and the visitors at the grandstand cannot see much of the final corner anyway, since the drivers come from the back of the grandstand.