Driver Restarts after safety cars

**Born Racer** · 4 Oct 2009, 20:18 (Ref:2554077)

Why are so many of them so poor at it? Why was Trulli not all over Grosjean? We see this a lot. It seems an obvious thing to be able to do, and not difficult.

Knowlesy · 4 Oct 2009, 21:19 (Ref:2554134)

They should have double file restarts, that way an attempt to pass may be witnessed.

Happy days!

Honestly, I can think of very few drivers over the years who do/did well on restarts in F1. In fact I can think of only one. It's pathetic.

**Adam43** · 4 Oct 2009, 21:21 (Ref:2554138)

and now he is in NASCAR?!

Knowlesy · 4 Oct 2009, 21:23 (Ref:2554139)

Well that's the only one I can think of. And even then, he seemed to get worse at them over time.

It must be a virus in F1!

ralf fan · 4 Oct 2009, 21:29 (Ref:2554142)

Raikkonen was the biggest failure. Had his KERS while Hamilton's was malfunctioning. Could have gotten a podium and didn't even get close.

Nicholosophy · 4 Oct 2009, 21:35 (Ref:2554147)

It would require all the cars to be line astern and running at a standard pace (none of this stop start stop start).

Make it so that when the safety car is due in, bunch the field up and give the lead driver one chance to put his foot down and get it going again. If he backs off again then he gets penalised. Or something. i don't know.

Purist · 4 Oct 2009, 21:56 (Ref:2554157)

Yeah, it should be one go, and you can't back off once you're on it. They had horrendous problems at the 1997 Indy 500 because the front-runners would goose it, and then back off again. It cost at least six drivers their races (due to damage of varying degrees) on two consecutive attempted restarts.

Marbot · 5 Oct 2009, 00:10 (Ref:2554206)

Get'em to form up on the grid again in current race order after the safety car goes in,and have another 'start'.

Nicholosophy · 5 Oct 2009, 01:14 (Ref:2554219)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Get'em to form up on the grid again in current race order after the safety car goes in,and have another 'start'.

At first glace I figured you may as well just red flag the race then but actually it's not a bad idea. Going around behind the safety car means that the cars can keep running, and keep a little bit of heat in tyres, breaks etc. That last lap behind the safety car could just be like the warmup lap at the start of the race, with attempts to get heat into the tyres.

Some will say that this will mean people will lose places they shouldn't, but it's not like the FIA to bring in laws to promote artificial overtaking opportunities. Oh wait...

Matt · 5 Oct 2009, 06:23 (Ref:2554259)

Just designate a control line that the leader cannot boot it until then(S/F line).

Make a maximum following distance between two cars(say 5-6m) between the final corner and the control line.

I wonder if Montoya made another crack at F1, how he'd fare on restarts now, or if Piquet goes off for just a year in NASCAR and came back. They'd be demons.

The SpeCTator · 5 Oct 2009, 06:32 (Ref:2554260)

Agree with born racer, why in every formula do some drivers make such a mess of a restart. It clearly must be more difficult than it looks, any drivers on here that can add more?

**Born Racer** · 5 Oct 2009, 08:18 (Ref:2554309)

All I can talk about is my own karting experience, and it's true you can get caught out slightly by the person in front flooring it, but in F1 there are enormous gaps.

JamesH · 5 Oct 2009, 09:33 (Ref:2554357)

Its like going away at traffic lights vs going away on a start line. At traffic lights on the road, you wait for the car in front to move, then move off. On a start line everyone moves at the same time (the lights go off).

Since in a race car you cannot see more than one maybe two cars in front, on a rolling restart you rely on knowing when to go on the car in front. So there is always a reaction time issue.

In a F1 rolling restart, the cars accelerate so fast, that even that reaction time will result in a big gap opening up, and it gets bigger as you go down the field because everyone's reactions times add up. You could anticipate, but get it wrong and you crash in to the car in front, or pass before you are allowed to.

SWCRacing · 5 Oct 2009, 09:38 (Ref:2554361)

In F1, the cars can be up to 10 car lengths apart under safety car deployment. That doesn't excuse the crap restarts that so many of them make. It's not like they don't know the safety car is coming in!!

Mr V · 5 Oct 2009, 10:03 (Ref:2554384)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Honestly, I can think of very few drivers over the years who do/did well on restarts in F1. In fact I can think of only one. It's pathetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

and now he is in NASCAR?!

And according to Wrex, he was crap!

Mr V · 5 Oct 2009, 10:08 (Ref:2554389)

One difference between Nascar and F1 though of course is the tracks. Nascar's oval's lean themselves towards restarts whereas F1 circuits don't. The final chicane at Suzuka for example is not really very good for restarts, whereas Interlagos is brilliant.

Matt · 5 Oct 2009, 16:07 (Ref:2554625)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

One difference between Nascar and F1 though of course is the tracks. Nascar's oval's lean themselves towards restarts whereas F1 circuits don't. The final chicane at Suzuka for example is not really very good for restarts, whereas Interlagos is brilliant.

NASCAR manages restarts just fine at Sears Point and Watkins Glen though, so that doesn't work.

Yannick · 6 Oct 2009, 11:24 (Ref:2555103)

F1 drivers seemingly are not used to restarts. They don't have testing anymore to practise them, either. But they should, because bad restarts are a wasted opportunity.

Super Hans · 6 Oct 2009, 11:43 (Ref:2555111)

Trulli in losing concentration during a race shock. What next? Fisichella falls asleep and gets passed on the pitlane exit?

ukaskew · 6 Oct 2009, 11:43 (Ref:2555112)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesH

Its like going away at traffic lights vs going away on a start line. At traffic lights on the road, you wait for the car in front to move, then move off. On a start line everyone moves at the same time (the lights go off).

Since in a race car you cannot see more than one maybe two cars in front, on a rolling restart you rely on knowing when to go on the car in front. So there is always a reaction time issue.

In a F1 rolling restart, the cars accelerate so fast, that even that reaction time will result in a big gap opening up, and it gets bigger as you go down the field because everyone's reactions times add up. You could anticipate, but get it wrong and you crash in to the car in front, or pass before you are allowed to.

That all seems perfectly logical to me, the reaction times will soon add up and the acceleration of the cars will make a big difference very quickly.

Does a car have to be fully behind the car in front, or does he just not have to have passed the car in front (as they are two completely different things)? If you could be pretty much alongside at the restart then it has more potential for overtakes.

kartracer41 · 6 Oct 2009, 12:21 (Ref:2555138)

Many of the times, it seems they get caught all strung out. It's like the cars are nowhere near each other and they aren't even paying attention. Many times I have seen someone with a bad start, and if the car behind them wasn't WAY back there, they would easily have been able to get by.

Lotusonpole · 6 Oct 2009, 13:44 (Ref:2555188)

Or why not have a safety car that is as fast as a F1 car, i.e. an older F1 car maybe (modified for 2 crew members) or a Le Mans type car.
Then the field could be led round the track at a decent pace, only slowing down when approaching the danger area.

Just a thought.

Matt · 6 Oct 2009, 14:23 (Ref:2555210)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotusonpole

Or why not have a safety car that is as fast as a F1 car, i.e. an older F1 car maybe (modified for 2 crew members) or a Le Mans type car.
Then the field could be led round the track at a decent pace, only slowing down when approaching the danger area.

Just a thought.

What good would that do? A safety car is supposed to control the situation, and lead the cars around at a "safe" pace. Who cares if the tires get cool, if they're the best drivers in the world, they should be able to control a high powered car on cold tires.

Lotusonpole · 6 Oct 2009, 18:03 (Ref:2555352)

It would still control the situation but faster...

I see what you mean Matt, but it was just an idea, bad or good, an idea.

strider · 6 Oct 2009, 18:34 (Ref:2555372)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartracer41

Many of the times, it seems they get caught all strung out. It's like the cars are nowhere near each other and they aren't even paying attention. Many times I have seen someone with a bad start, and if the car behind them wasn't WAY back there, they would easily have been able to get by.

It looks that way, I agree, but I think if a driver gets too close to another he'll get brake tested or or something similar.

As it is, they're weaving about, trying to get some heat into the tyres, and coming on and off the brakes trying to get those up to temperature, so it's quite a dangerous environment.

Maybe there should be a rule saying that none of these things are allowed once the Safety's Cars lights have gone out, so then they could bunch up a bit more and give us the benefit of a more interesting re-start.

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