Race numbers

[deadsquirrel]

Forgive this interruption!

As a marshal, whether flagging or gridding cars in the Assembly area, one thing always strikes me - the non-visibility of car numbers when cars are coming directly towards or away from me.

I've seen racecars in Australia that have their numbers as stickers in windscreen and rear screen - which makes it soooo much easier to identify cars, when reporting incidents.

So, my question is - how willing would you (racers) be to spend a pound or two and adopt this system? Is anyone here a series coordinator who would champion this for their series? Is it a bad idea?

Catching numbers is important in reporting driving standards, contact etc - if you've suffered an injustice because a report could not confirm car numbers, this would help.

[silver bullet]

We in rallycross already have front facing numbers. They are there to assist the dummy grid marshals, as they have cars coming at them all the time and are often lining up two or three races at the same time, due to the nature of the sport.

The reduction in the size of race numbers has been a bugbear of mine, and it's getting worse. I blame the advance of transponder timing, and the fact that there are no longer officials with pens, paper, and stopwatch manually checking the car numbers as they go past.
The smaller numbers seemed to start out in the topline formulas (F1, WRC etc) and are now filtering down into the lower series.
The teams say that it gives more room for sponsors, but look at the NASCAR cars, no-one has more sponsorship than them, yet they have the biggest numbers in motorsport.

So yes I have no problem with front & rear facing numbers, and I would add lets return to bigger clearer door numbers also. It would not only help the marshals, but also the fans to identify the cars more easily.

[Dom]

Theres some quite specific regs in the blue book on race numbers - one of which (certainly for saloon cars) is a number on the bonnet which is pretty forward facing (unless its a beetle..) If cars are missing these then surely they should be pulled up on this in scruitineering?

[Chris Y]

I think this is something the MSA want to bring in as well. They've been trialling some new numbers on BTCC - big flouro yellow numbers on the back door windows, and some on the windscreen opposite the driver.

I think it's a good idea, and I'll be getting some made up like that.

[Tim Falce]

Where could I put a number on my windscreen that wouldn't impair my vision?

[Paul D]

Stick it on your visor Tim!

I initially thought this was a good idea... until I thought about it! Then I realised that, the way I drive, it's probably best if the marshals can't get my number!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Paul D

I initially thought this was a good idea... until I thought about it! Then I realised that, the way I drive, it's probably best if the marshals can't get my number!

that was exactly my thought process...with the addition that if the MSA got involved it would be unnecessarily complicated and expensive. Lo and behold...

>>>>>big fluoro yellow numbers

Just the kind of thing that isn't readily available in your local shop, you have to go to an (overpriced) specialist! If they'd just leave it as number plate digits everything could be tickety boo.

[Al Weyman]

I'll do as many as you want got a nice big roll of the stuff in stock!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I'll do as many as you want got a nice big roll of the stuff in stock!

I thought our resident sign man would be around soon You'll have to get some branded with the Tenths logo Al.

[Moosehead]

I often see assembly area/grid marshals struggling to see numbers which then holds up the process a little. I have no problem fitting dayglo numbers on the top of the screen - will sort for next meeting.

Al - number 28 please

[gt917]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Where could I put a number on my windscreen that wouldn't impair my vision?

I,m with Tim on this one, and i have a full windscreen. When i,m sitting/laying in this thing i only have about a ten inch visibility window, and i,ll be damned if i,m going to put any number on the screen.

The idea will only work on the more upright types of window in saloons, etc, and even then they must not impede the drivers vision. I,m all for tougher scrutineering, or better still in the assembly area where you can be barred from practice or the race if the number is not easily recognised.

That would soon make the non complying drivers/entrants alter their ways.

At the end of the day is there REALLY a problem, and is Al just about to be inundated with bulk buying frenzy !!!

[midgetman]

Have we considered that Deadsquirrel is Al's alter ego trying to build up trade? All he needs now is for a Government minister to say there could be a shortage of dayglo stickers...

[deadsquirrel]

Government sources are suggesting a shortage of day glo sticker material - and recommend Al Weyman as possibly the last supplier with stock

[JohnD]

deadsqquirrel,
Which series or discipline do you refer to?
Q.4.1.2 says numbers in three places, "front doors...... and on the foremost part of the nose".
A google for, say, Formula Ford cars, sees about half with no number on the nose; do you marshal for single seaters?
John

[deadsquirrel]

To clarify - I am thinking of saloons. The 917 number is clearly visible

I don't follow BTCC, but http://www.speedtv.com/programs/aust...-v8-supercars/ the photo shows what I'm thinking.

[Moosehead]

To be fair both the cars pictured are pretty low and the numbers are on a section that is angled down so easily viewed from a distance. Most saloons are a tad higher and the bonnet flat which would distort the numbers to a degree.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

To be fair both the cars pictured are pretty low and the numbers are on a section that is angled down so easily viewed from a distance. Most saloons are a tad higher and the bonnet flat which would distort the numbers to a degree.

One example of this is the ginetta G40

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/7183570090/

Caused us great issues at rockingham the other week.


There are some cars out there who at present it is nigh on impossible to to see the numbers on as it approaches the grid. this in my opinion should be changed. if the numbers are visible, it allows us to grid the cars up quicker, causing less delay between races meaning a smoother flow to the race program, so there are advantages for both marshals and drivers.

[MGDavid]

another solution is to put the cars in grid order in the assembly area (as MGCC now do); would also be a good idea to put summat in the FIs advising drivers to be aware of their row and grid place before presenting themselves to assembly. (yes I know many don't read - but you have to try!)

A really nice touch when I raced with FISC abroad was that as if by magic you'd find a post-it note on the steering wheel just before every race with your Row number and L(eft) or R(ight). Just a little job which used to be done by one of the racers' other halves.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Dom

Theres some quite specific regs in the blue book on race numbers - one of which (certainly for saloon cars) is a number on the bonnet which is pretty forward facing (unless its a beetle..) If cars are missing these then surely they should be pulled up on this in scruitineering?

Unless there's a scrutineer on here to correct me, I've always been told that scrutineers don't check the visibility or compliance of numbers.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

another solution is to put the cars in grid order in the assembly area (as MGCC now do); would also be a good idea to put summat in the FIs advising drivers to be aware of their row and grid place before presenting themselves to assembly. (yes I know many don't read - but you have to try!)
...

That happens with at least 95% of series already which should work in theory but the number of times cars end up in the wrong order even in the short trip from the assembly area to the grid is astonishing.

Originally Posted by MGDavid

A really nice touch when I raced with FISC abroad was that as if by magic you'd find a post-it note on the steering wheel just before every race with your Row number and L(eft) or R(ight). Just a little job which used to be done by one of the racers' other halves.

its always useful when drivers know where they are going, makes our jobs easier

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by mattt

One example of this is the ginetta G40

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/7183570090/

Caused us great issues at rockingham the other week.


There are some cars out there who at present it is nigh on impossible to to see the numbers on as it approaches the grid. this in my opinion should be changed. if the numbers are visible, it allows us to grid the cars up quicker, causing less delay between races meaning a smoother flow to the race program, so there are advantages for both marshals and drivers.

As in life, the answer is better enforcement of existing regulations, not more regulation.

JohnD quoted the regulations which are perfectly clear. The number must be on the forward part of the bonnet. The Ginetta does not comply and should be failed at scrutineering.

Please, don't burden us with more bureaucracy but clamp down on those who don't follow the existing rules. Just because of the wealthy few who reckon the numbers spoil their sponsor's corporate image, everyone has yet more rules to contend with. Well, tell them to repaint their cars and follow the rules like I do. It's not rocket science, we all have a Blue Book.

<stamps foot and goes away in a paddy>

Alternatively use taller marshals. (JOKE by the way!)

[midgetman]

PS I actually have a small repeater number on the screen of the 924 already, I fitted it for the 360! But that's choice, not regulation.



Tried to upload image but it doesn't appear to work

[mattt]

Originally Posted by midgetman

As in life, the answer is better enforcement of existing regulations, not more regulation.

JohnD quoted the regulations which are perfectly clear. The number must be on the forward part of the bonnet. The Ginetta does not comply and should be failed at scrutineering.

Please, don't burden us with more bureaucracy but clamp down on those who don't follow the existing rules. Just because of the wealthy few who reckon the numbers spoil their sponsor's corporate image, everyone has yet more rules to contend with. Well, tell them to repaint their cars and follow the rules like I do. It's not rocket science, we all have a Blue Book.

<stamps foot and goes away in a paddy>

Well thats what we need the MSA to do, its not something us as marshals can do anything about.

There are many cars other than the ginettas that have numbers in unreadable positions, for example most of the BMWs that race and a majority of other saloon cars with high noses and flat bonnets. these cars need a number that can be read.

A small repeater is all thats needed if it cant be read from the normal positions

Alternatively use taller marshals. (JOKE by the way!)

it is easier for me than some others already being nearly 6 foot and many other marshals being about 5 foot.

Maybe we could be trained to marshal on stilts

[Stuart H]

Personally I find numbers on single seater hardest to read :/

[midgetman]

>>>>A small repeater is all thats needed if it cant be read from the normal positions

No, complying with the regulations as written is all that is needed!

Have you tried complaining to the scrutineers? I doubt they as a body realise the problem but feed back to the individual scrutineers and it will soon get back into the system.