Who else is Grade A?

[Glen]

From F1.com...

Renault test driver Fernando Alonso has stated that he believes other drivers are capable of producing the same level of performance as Michael Schumacher, just that it is more difficult to tell as their cars do not match the top three teams.

He names Giancarlo Fisichella and Jarno Trulli as potential rivals for the four times world champion, and indicated that there were others among the current field capable of threatening the German star.

"It's very difficult for a driver to say that another driver is the best," he said in Autosport magazine. "Among the top teams - Ferrari, Williams and McLaren - Schumacher was the best (in 2001).

"I think in the other teams, there are three or four drivers who have the level of Michael but they are unable to show it. It is difficult to say, maybe Jarno, Giancarlo and there are others."

I'd agree with him that Fisichella has the potential - not sure about Trulli. Montoya not mentioned, but there again still not proven over a whole season (made mistakes and over-drove and broke the car quite a bit early on).

Who else? Who's the next WDC (after MS has finished!)?

[f1manoz]

As soon as he gets his butt in a decent car (i.e McLaren), Heidfeld will be the next WDC. Of course, this is a completely biased viewpoint, but

Realistically, there are a few drivers in the field capable of winning the title while TGF is IN the field, let alone after he retires. But it's a case of getting their hands on the machinery capable of competing with the Ferrari as well.

[Gt_R]

I have to say i agree whole heartedly to this.

Below are a list of my favs to be up there wif my fav Michael (drivers i think that can be as good):

Montoya
Nick Heidfeld
Giancarlos Fisichella
Fernando Alonso

Maybe Kimi and Trulli too...

But there are some who just cannot seem to match Michael:
David
Irvine
Pedro/R
Enges
Bernoldi
Jos
and quite a few...

[Nicholas]

Villeneuve is becoming a lost cause

[paulzinho]

I wanna see what Massa does next year, if he's solid I think he can be a maybe too...

[RT]

Could it be that Fernando in a team with an Italian driver and an Italian boss, chose to "pump up" the image of the italian drivers for good career PR?. I think Fernando is also quick when it comes to thinking!!

My A list (meaning that I would build a team around them):

Michael
Jarno
Kimi
Fernando
Nick
Ralf (in pre-Cora form)


Close but no cigar:

Jacques (too old by now)
Juan (overhyped)
Giancarlo (an underused talent right on the sell-by date, it may be too late)

[BBKing]

Originally posted by Glen
From F1.com... I'd agree with him that Fisichella has the potential - not sure about Trulli. Montoya not mentioned, but there again still not proven over a whole season (made mistakes and over-drove and broke the car quite a bit early on).

Who else? Who's the next WDC (after MS has finished!)?

Montoya is not mentioned in the same level as Schumacher because Formula Juan is on a higher level.

[Wiki]

Methinks Ferdy the politician mentions Italians on purpose.

Trulli may be a good qualifier but he tends to find races are 50-odd laps too long for him.

Carlo - star but in wrong car
Ralf - yes I know I'm biased, you know I'm biased, but you don't get a sixth season of F1 on a whim (er unless ur Tarso, at this rate he will be driving every second year)
Nick - Rocky first season and rude treatment by merc will give him just the grit to prove everyone wrong. And he did tie with Monty at the top of the F3000 tree in 1998 (no mean feat apparently )

[neutral]

Instead of all these young drivers bit@hing about how poor their cars are, maybe they should concentrate on improving their driving to impress these good teams. Michael didn't moan in his younger days about how **** his team was. Rather, he worked tirelessly to make them better. He inspired the team, skepticism turned into belief, and naturally the team improved. How many championships had Benneton won before Michael came on board? How much success had Ferrari had in the past 2 decades before Michael came on board? The point is that Micahel has earned his drive. He's paid his due, and had his fair share of $hitty drives. I just laugh when I hear people say how unlucky Montoya is. I would put him right up with Villeneuve as the luckiest rookies in F1. People compare Montoya's rookie year with Ralf's and its a joke.

If Montoya wins next year, then I will be the first to take my hat off and praise the young Columbian. Likewise for Kimi, DC, or Ralf. But if Michael happens to win again, I will consider it nothing more than a just reward for someone who has worked so hard. Unlike most myopic F1 fans, I still remember the days when people mocked Michael's promise "next year Ferrari will win". And all the fans who gave up on Michael after silverstone 99. But most of all, I remember the days when Michael struggled to bring the Ferrari to a podium, the days when only rain could bring Michael a victory, and the days of a Mclaren or William nearly lapping Michael for victory.

Montoya is not mentioned in the same level as Schumacher because Formula Juan is on a higher level.

BBKing, when Juan has 40 odd victories and a few world championships, then and only then, can we start talking. Till that time, you have a pretty weak argument.

[Gt_R]

Pretty well put forward...

A lot of people brush off Michael's performance by saying its because of a strong team which produced the strong car. But they chose to ignore the fact that Michael plays a very important role in bringing the team together, building up the team, and thus achieve succeed with the team. I think that his championships are the most worthy of any drivers of late in the past 10 years (Mika's are worthy too), because it is the result of ultimate skills and hardwork. Which is why Michael rates high in my books.

Sure, Montoya had an unlucky start at times this year, fans moan. But compared to Michael, i think his first year is a relative ease, coming into F1 in arguably the 2nd best car on the grid (the best in higher speed circuit). And Montoya IS a great potential, but while we can compare in race-by-race performance for now, to say for sure JPM is on the same level, let alone higher, is in my opinion pretty much jumping the gun.

There are drivers who came into F1 in great cars like JV and DC, and there are those who see the potential in a team, grab the opportunity, work hard on it, and win like Michael and Mika. And i think those in the later group deserves the ultimate reward more...

[BBKing]

Originally posted by neutral
BBKing, when Juan has 40 odd victories and a few world championships, then and only then, can we start talking. Till that time, you have a pretty weak argument.

You almost made me cry...LOL

You can wait all you want but Formula Juan is not affraid of his teammate. everytime Barrichello has had the God status that is reserved to Schumacher (Germany 2000, Monza and Indy 2001) he showed that it was not hard to look as a great driver. Not to mention Salo in 99. So the point is that the way Ferrari treats Schumacher influence a lot in the general perception that he is the best.

He was the best among the current drivers until Formula Juan showed him the back of his car in Brazil, Silverstone and Indy. Formula Juan showed that having a good car he has not problems whatsoever to beat Schumacher in the track. That is a fact people has to face sooner rather than later.

[srinimax]

well all i can say is this - tgf took up a mission and succeeded. i dont think any current driver is capable of doing that (mr.montoya at his higher perch included). if one of these guys can do for jag what michael did for ferrari then i'll consider them to be in the same league. in all the hype bout the new guys we seem to be highly overrating several of them - alonso, heidfeld, massa etc. lets see its too early to put them in any league. i can see fisi and jpm being really good, ralf too. but thats about it.

and as neutral pointed out, these guys have already started shooting their mouths off to the press. tgf was a disciplied committed and inspired individual who let his driving do all the talking and boy did it talk ! hats off to the guy. he's up there as far as i'm concerned and all the others would have to do wonders to be even considered as good as him. as far as i can see, its senna, tgf and we'll have to wait atleast 3-4 years for the next one.

[CATMAN]

TGF is not a grade A driver, he just has the right backing. No not the car, Bernie! Button would be better given the right gear. DC and Montoya are the best, Ralphy hasn`t got the ability.

[Alan Jones]

Catman, even I can admit that Michael is a very talented driver and currently has the speed and the records to prove it Even if you wiped out his records for the 2 times he has been , how can I say this without every TGF fan killing me ,a little on the nose after some questionable tactics, he would still have a very impressive career record and his ability is plain to see whenever he is out there qualifying.

[Speed]

Originally posted by neutral
If Montoya wins next year, then I will be the first to take my hat off and praise the young Columbian.

He already won. Do you think with FW24 will be harder to win a GP ?

[downforce]

er...we mean the championship ole boy!

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by CATMAN
TGF is not a grade A driver, he just has the right backing. No not the car, Bernie! Button would be better given the right gear. DC and Montoya are the best, Ralphy hasn`t got the ability.

LOL

How did DC find his way in there?!!!
Jensen has proved nothing (yet) and as for Montoya, yes, I accept he is the man "most likely to", as they say.

But lets get real, I'm no TGF fan but he is clearly the only Grade A driver in F1 at the present time.

[RussianFriend]

Unfortunatelly TGF is Grade A+ driver, ( ) I wish he wouldn't! Grade A driver behind the Grade A wheel is killing the competition.

Ralf deserves A too. Kimi is promising to deserve it.
I'm, not sure about Montoya. He's very talented but not stable. So he's about to be Grade B driver.
Don't write off Jenson. I can't belive old Franky had mistaken paying such price for him. He needs good manager (strict one) and good car. Maybe threatings will sober him

[Speed]

Originally posted by downforce
er...we mean the championship ole boy!

sorry then...

[Gt_R]

"I wish he (MS) wouldn't! Grade A driver behind the Grade A wheel is killing the competition."

I'm just getting curious, but i have seen similar remarks over the year quite frequently, about how Michael in Ferrari is boring (and damaging even) to F1, that we would have exciting competition if he was to be away...or something to this effect. Many would want him to leave because of his results. All i have to ask is this "So we should lower the level just to get more excitement/competition? So the best drivers have to leave and not spoil our sport's viewing pleasure?"

I always thought it's the job of lesser drivers or lesser teams to up their game to beat the best...before they deserve anything. Isn't that the point of competition/racing? Alonso, JPM, and even david, thus gets the thumbs up in such senario, for their constant efforts to beat the best...that's what i want...what about you?

[Alan Jones]

here here GT_R

well said my good man

[BBKing]

Originally posted by Gt_R
I'm just getting curious, but i have seen similar remarks over the year quite frequently, about how Michael in Ferrari is boring (and damaging even) to F1, that we would have exciting competition if he was to be away...or something to this effect. Many would want him to leave because of his results. All i have to ask is this "So we should lower the level just to get more excitement/competition? So the best drivers have to leave and not spoil our sport's viewing pleasure?"

It is boring if they insist on the slave clause on Schumacher's teammate in spite of having the best car in the grid. When I say the best car in the grid I mean it. I mean. Not even the Williams 93 was so good. Yet they still have to force the number 2 at Ferrari to work for Schumacher. That in my opinion puts a lot of question marks about Schumacher's records.

[Glen]

BBK

Is it the case, in your opinion, that number one status for MS means that Rubens gets a slower car all the time - or is it just that he is required to defer during the race?

Surely if what you say is true then Rubens would more often than not end up coming home second, after MS? Unless "They" always build his car overweight, or always give him a different spec engine... or he doesn't get the same quality of race engineer... or some other conspiracy.

Or, could it possibly be the case that your low opinion of the world champion is pure prejudice and bunkum?

[BBKing]

Originally posted by Glen
Surely if what you say is true then Rubens would more often than not end up coming home second, after MS? Unless "They" always build his car overweight, or always give him a different spec engine... or he doesn't get the same quality of race engineer... or some other conspiracy.

Find the responses to your questions in Austria, Monza, Indy and Suzuka 2001. Austria tells you that no matter what Schumacher's slave has to give his position if Schumacher is behind. Monza and Indy tells you that given the same God status Schumacher gets by default Barrichello could look just as much impresive as Schumacher. Suzuka is a good example that Ferrari does not give a **** about the slave getting the best equipment even if there is a lot in play for him.

[Glen]

Yes BBK, but that is a somewhat disingenuous assessment...

Austria - yep, fair enough Rubens was required to defer - and I totally agree that that was a sham and unecessary and should not have happened.

Monza/Indy - Rubens wasn't given God Status, what rot... Schumacher was badly out of sorts and entertaining thoughts of not going on with F1 at all, and his performance reflected that. Your argument might make more sense had Barrichello gone on to win either of these races.

Suzuka - what you say is true, but only provided that the new parts in Schumi's car proved reliable. Had Ferrari given Rubens the fast bits and then his car had not made the distance then the story would have a different complexion. Ruben's pit stop strategy was rubbish, but there again the strategy required him to get a big lead at the beginning, which he failed to do due (in my opinion) to his not being near he same quality as a driver.

All last season we consistently saw Mclaren and Williams cars splitting the Ferraris in qualifying and race, which in my mind attests to the extra skill and speed of Schumi and the average quality of Rubens, rather than any deficiency in the number two Ferrari car.