Helmets........

[Slowcoach]

After many years of trusty service time has come to choose a new crash helmet, prompted by my reading that technology has moved on and helmets are much lighter these days, greatly beneficial in the case of an accident! But how much lighter? By coincidence a new Demon Tweeks catalogue arrived on my doorstep yesterday and upon looking though I was suprised at how few manufacturers listed the weights. Of the few mentioned the lightest was 1300g (just under 3lb)-that sounded light to me so I thought I'd weigh my 10 year old-it came in at 1900g (just a whisker over 4lb) - any ideas about what weights are available and does it make THAT much difference.
One other thing - most were British Standard,some were FIA approved and some FR/RAC and one was just SA2000 - am I right to assume the FIA is the best to go for ?:confused:

[Simon Pullan]

If you are just doing short sprints then you might not feel the benefit of a light helmet, but in races of a decent length then they definitely are a help. If you are super fit then you could probably cope with a slightly heavier helmet.

I also need to change my helmet this winter and I think I'm going to go back to a Simpson Super Shark. I had one of those before my (current) Bell M3 and prefered it. I was giving serious consideration to the Stand 21 helmet as advised by Rick Pearson but since the DT catalogue landed I noticed that they don't sell Stand 21 anymore so that isn't an option.

Anything that is Snell 2000 approved will be more than good enough as those tests are very rigorous. I'd go for the most expensive helmet that you can afford because after all it is your head.

[apguy]

Weight can make a difference in an single seater but not in your barge I ride a motorcycle and the wind buffeting and g-forces on the neck means a 1lb difference in weight can be significant. You certainly get strong neck muscles with a heavy helmet!
For saloon cars you don't get the same wind/g-force experiance so it becomes less relevant.

Helmet marking are all in the Q section of the Blue Book but basically
BS 6585 is UK standard and comes in Type A (non fire-resistant lining) or Type A/FR (fire resistant)
Snell SA2000 is American

The MSA are trying to discourage BS 6585 Type *A* helmets and they no longer have FIA approval for international events. They threated to removal approval for National events last year but kept the standard in the Blue Book. Looks like it got a reprieve.

BS 6585 Type A/FR and Snell SA95 / SA2000 are FIA approved. (the SA number indicates the year of approval and SA90's are now 10 years old and hence out of FIA approval)

Unless you want to pay top dollar - I'd get a BS Type A/FR helmet.

Regards

[josvandeperre]

all the usual rubbish about buy the best you can afford and do not buy by mail order - like a good pair of levis the fit from one helmet to another let alone style or make can differ - take your balaclava and neck brace too

Club only = BS 6658 Type A

Club and if your series might go to Europe - local scrutineers can be funny = BS 6658 Type A/FR = FIA - fireproof lining

There's also SA95 Snell & SA 2000 which are the US specs - both are OK for FIA/RAC as they include fireproof lining - typically these helmets are more expensive

BS helmets carry no vat

I think weights have come down due to carbon/kevlar replacing fibreglass - having said that if the helmet is comfortable and fits well the weight should not be an issue especially for our half hour type races

[Morris 1100]

The Snell Institute was born because a guy called William (Pete) Snell was killed in a sportscar race in the USA in 1956 and his friends were amazed at his death from head injuries even though he was wearing the state of the art helmet so when they found out there was no standards for helmets so they set up the Snell Memorial Institute.
The main standards are SA 2000 or M 2000 and the earlier versions like SA95 SA90 etc, be carefull as the SA stands for Special Application (Motorsport) and the M stands for Motorcycle.
The SA helmets are tested for fire and repeated impacts like roll bars, and the M don't pass these extra tests.
The Snell standards kind of relate to years but not always like my Simpson made in 1991 with a Snell SA 85 because the Snell standards were not finished yet.
Go to the Snell website http://www.smf.org/ and see the full story.

[THR]

goto the autosport exhibition and try one on. and buy it there and then, after haggling!!

outta interest..
in a 1G turn the weight of the helmet will push your head outwards.
so, if its lighter by 600g thats 600g less force on ya neck.
and should you crash at say 20g it would be 120kg less force on your neck!

they say that under braking in an F1 car its like putting a tv on the back of your head. so any lightness is quite nice to them!!

nice to have a nice light one. but of course it comes at a price. but then, your head is kinda important.

[nem]

Morris 1100. Thank you for the link. Outstanding info.

[Morris 1100]

Try the FIA webpage and see what info they have........stuff all
I would use the helmet with the Snell label over a FIA approval.
When I started racing in Australia you had to have a AS 1698 label you could not use anything else so you had to use a motorcycle helmet that met the extreme tests that the Australian Standards Association could throw at it, you may have been able to squeeze the sides of the helmet so the would touch, but it had the AS 1698 label so it was OK.
Guys were bringing in Simpsons and Bells from the United States and the Scruits were knocking them back "Snell...who the hell are they"

[RickP:Clio51]

Guys,
DT don't sell Stand 21 helmets anymore because they weren't trusted to fit them properly...
Stand 21UK based 400m from Brands will help you out. Speak to Julie on 01474 855319 (not there today (Monday) but back tomorrow)
Plus they will have a big stand at Autosport Intl.
Visitors buying kit and mentioning my name might (if lucky) get a small discount but the stuff is by far and away the best. (IMHO)

Simon, that Shark is what I ditched because the Stand helmet was half the weight... and made an enormous difference to my physical condition when I got out of the car after testing (and the following day too!)

But for cripes sake get a Snell 2000, BS helmets shouldn't be allowed out, they're mostly fibreglass or summink equally cr*p! Don't let anyone palm you off with Snell 95 as they are old stock.

Cheers

RickP

[Slowcoach]

Thanks for all the info folks-very informative and lots to consider. I shall be looking carefully at all available but it certainly seems that a Snell approved one is the way to go and I am keen to get as light as possible. Snell's website was very interesting. Perhaps I'll post when I get one - which may not be until Santa arrives

[woodyracing]

Ive also been looking at the new Demon Tweeks catalog.
Anyone know anything about the Sparco Formula helmet(weight etc)?
i just know its FIA approved.

[woodyracing]

oh i found out it is BS6658-85 A/FR approved.

[Dom]

Oh i've got one of those Formula helmets, all this talk is making me nervous now!

[RickP:Clio51]

Famous tale:

Keke Rosberg, on the grid for 1st GP, show up with seriously flash new helmet....

Couple of the older guys round on the rookie and start giving him abuse about his crash hat...

Rosbergs response?

He stands there, listens to what they've got to say, then says:

"If you've got a 10 dollar head, get a 10 dollar helmet"

Turns his back and walks off.

Cheers
RickP

[woodyracing]

Originally posted by THR

in a 1G turn the weight of the helmet will push your head outwards.
so, if its lighter by 600g thats 600g less force on ya neck.
and should you crash at say 20g it would be 120kg less force on your neck!

isn't it 12Kg and not 120Kg ?

(600x20) / 1000 = 12

[woodyracing]

i was originally thinking about the Sparco Formula (BS6658-85 A/FR), but i notice that Bell do some fibreglass Snell SA 2000 approved helmets for a bit more.

Is it really worth the extra for Snell? and what does Snell do that BS6658-85 A/FR doesnt ?

[RickP:Clio51]

stops you dying...

[uncle_jim]

Originally posted by Simon Pullan
...I also need to change my helmet this winter and I think I'm going to go back to a Simpson Super Shark. I had one of those before my (current) Bell M3 and prefered it...

Is the Super Shark the same as the Speedway Shark - I have the Speedway Shark from 2 years ago and it rather bulky and unrefined for a single seater cockpit. I think it best for tin-tops.

What about the Bell Dominator? And how do helmet prices in the UK stack up vs. prices in North America.

[Simon Pullan]

Originally posted by uncle_jim
Is the Super Shark the same as the Speedway Shark - I have the Speedway Shark from 2 years ago and it rather bulky and unrefined for a single seater cockpit. I think it best for tin-tops.

Yes, it's basically the same but without the fins and aerofoils. But it's still got the anti-buffeting ridges on top. I used one of these in my latter karting days and loved it's weight and fit. Next year I will be in a tin-top so the anti-buffeting stuff won't be of much use but if it is still as impressive as my old one was then I'll get another.

Originally posted by uncle_jim
What about the Bell Dominator? And how do helmet prices in the UK stack up vs. prices in North America.

I'm also thinking about a Bell Vortex, which I think is the same as a Dominator but without the fins and aerofoils, again. But I have a Bell M3 as my current helmet and didn't like the fit as much as the Super Shark once it had worn in. They certainly seem to have come down in price this time around so maybe finally we are starting to get our prices into line with USA. Simpson helmets are still pretty expensive but I have £850 worth of Demon Tweeks gift vouchers so it's alright and helmets are the only things I buy from DT bar gloves and neck braces which don't come to that sort of money.

[THR]

oh yea 12kg... was working in Newtons..

opps

still quite a bit tho isnt it...
a 15" monitors mass shock loading within a short time.

[woodyracing]

yeah

[Morris 1100]

Originally posted by woodyracing
Is it really worth the extra for Snell? and what does Snell do that BS6658-85 A/FR doesnt ?

It passes Snell standards!
No seriously I have tried to find out what the BS(sounds about right)6658-85 A/FR means, the 6658 is the helmet standard the 85 is the year of the standard but what is the rest? The BS page is useless! YOU HAVE TO PAY 66 POUND TO FIND OUT WHAT WHAT TESTS THEY DO.
this is all they tell you.

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The Snell standard is upgraded every 5 years and the BS is 16 years old.......Its your head!

[josvandeperre]

To quote Mr Guy

BS 6585 is UK standard and comes in Type A (non fire-resistant lining) or Type A/FR (fire resistant)

As I recall Type B was a lesser variation - something like polycarbonate for use on mopeds

The BS test and the Snell test are different in that I think one uses a spike and the other a sort of hammer - also just because the Snell has a new date every few years does not mean the tests change - it can be just a revalidation of the old spec

My current helmet is a Sparco Formula despite being more expensive than the helmet I'd planned to buy mainly because it fitted me better after spending at least two hours trying loads of different sizes & styles at Grand Prix Racewear

AT the end of the day it seems to me what tests it meets are less relevant than that its the best you can afford and that it fits you properly