Oval racing in Europe

Speed Demon · 12 Feb 2002, 19:35 (Ref:214787)

Have tried this post over at Atlas, but thought the Ten Tenths crew could probably help find some answers too!

While everyone tends to think of America as the home of oval racing, Europe has a long pedigree when it comes to left-turn only courses. I will shortly be writing a history of European oval racing for my website (e-Tracks) and would appreciate a bit of help.

I'm not short of information on Brooklands, Monza or Sitges-Terramar but a few more detials about the Grenzlandring in Germany, Glostrup in Denmark and Monthlery and Mirimas in France would help. I can't think of any other ovals off the top of my head, but what are your thoughts?

JGM · 12 Feb 2002, 21:48 (Ref:214940)

There is some information about Miramas in David Hodges' book 'The French Grand Prix'- the 1926 GP was held there. The 5km track was built in 1924 on the desolate plain of La Crau near the mouth of the Rhone. It is symmetrical with 475 metre radius bends banked at three per cent. It was surfaced with concrete. The stands were planned to accommodate 100000 spectators but the track was never a success. Apart from the GP in 1926 it was the venue for four Grands Prix de Provence, two of which were won by Henry Segrave. The 1926 GP was possibly the biggest farce in the history of GP racing with only three starters for the 100 lap race. At the finish only one car was running - Jules Goux in a Bugatti. As a race track Miramas fizzled out after minor races in 1936 and 1937. Interestingly the track still exists and has been used for years as a suitably remote and secret centre for vehicle testing. I think it was owned by a tyre company for a while but the last I heard it was owned by BMW.

Speed Demon · 12 Feb 2002, 21:51 (Ref:214944)

Quote:

Originally posted by JGM
The 1926 GP was possibly the biggest farce in the history of GP racing with only three starters for the 100 lap race. At the finish only one car was running - Jules Goux in a Bugatti.

And I thought the 1996 Monaco GP was bad...

Autodromo · 16 Feb 2002, 15:31 (Ref:217170)

Don't discount the Autodromo Nacional aka. Sitges-Terramar...true to the sport of "Oval" style racing, with 60º banking on a 2km X 20m. wide track...reaching speeds up to 200km. in the 30's...built of concrete not wood, or using metal support system's that ruined most of the Great Tracks..(rusting away forever)...Too Bad. Maybe, racing would be alot different today if the GREAT Ovals still survived...no wings needed on a 60º banking,,just RAW SPEED !

Peter
www.autodromo.biz

Speed Demon · 16 Feb 2002, 16:01 (Ref:217188)

I see the Motor Sport crew effectively broke in to do their track test! Bit naughty, don't you think (although I'm glad they did for the article's sake, at least)?

Autodromo · 16 Feb 2002, 16:11 (Ref:217194)

Mr. Speed...I don't understand what your mean? "effectively broke in to do their track test"...
Peter

Rob29 · 16 Feb 2002, 16:40 (Ref:217211)

Quote:

Originally posted by Autodromo
Mr. Speed...I don't understand what your mean? "effectively broke in to do their track test"...
Peter

If you read the article, it says they did not have permission to enter the premises!

Speed Demon · 17 Feb 2002, 10:48 (Ref:217594)

After many hours of hard work last night, I've fianlly got the first two parts of the article posted. It covers the history of European oval racing from the rise of Brooklands up to the major circuits of the 1920s.

You can find it at:

http://www.etracks.freeserve.co.uk/

I'm now working on parts three and four, which will cover the Grenzlandring right through to the present day, together with details of future oval projects.

KC · 19 Feb 2002, 17:58 (Ref:219001)

The old BMRC site has a listing of the oval and road courses in England. I assume that many of the current ovals are Speedway circuits.

http://www.bmrc.co.uk/

strad · 7 Mar 2002, 11:53 (Ref:229886)

a brief history..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1926 motorcycle enthusiasts led by Fred Mockford and Cecil Smith, formed a group called London Motor Sports Ltd, and having identified Crystal Palace Park as a racing venue, were eventually allowed to run a meeting on May 21st 1927 over a 1 mile course of the parks paths. Over 10,000 people turned up to the meeting each paying 1 shilling plus 2d tax (approx. 6p). Following an incident during the meeting, several spectators were injured by a sidecar and questions were asked in Parliament about the incident. By the second meeting £500 had been invested in crash barriers, widening and general improvement of the circuit. Some 16,000 attended this meeting and the scene was set for racing to rival cricket, football, and greyhound racing at the venue.
Towards the end of 1927, Lional Wills (of WD&HO Wills Tobacco) approached Mockford and Smith with a suggestion to try the new Australian sport of speedway at Crystal Palace to supplement the path racing. The football stadium, home of Corinthians football club, was refurbished to provide an oval track at a cost of £5000, and some 30,000 people turned up for the first meeting and within a year some 70 tracks had sprung up throughout the country. In 1929 a league was formed and The Glaziers finished 4th, with Stamford Bridge being champions. By 1934, crowds were falling and having been refused floodlights for evening meetings, Mockford and Smith moved the team to New Cross, and the track fell into disrepair. Speedway was revived in 1937 for the new second division, but they could not recapture the glory days of the Glaziers, or match the 71,311 attendance of the 1930 Easter Monday meeting, and as the war loomed in 1939, speedway came to an end.

Rumours in 1935 told of a Donington for London, but it wasn't until December 1936 that work actually began on a new 2 mile circuit, laid with the new "Panamac" non-skid surface, only 3 days after the disaster which saw the Crystal Palace burn down overnight.
Did they run cars on an oval at Crystal Palace??..Or just bikes? I'm confused...

Rob29 · 7 Mar 2002, 12:07 (Ref:229897)

AFAIK it was only bikes.The speedway track became the paddock when the road circuit opened in 1937.Was replaced by the athletics stadium in 1962,when paddock was moved to top straight.BTW Some of the footpaths can still be walked on.

Stoffer Green · 7 Mar 2002, 15:58 (Ref:230022)

What about the Avus Ring in Berlin? Not strictly oval shaped, but it certainly had/has a huge banking which linked two straights (an autobahn, perhaps) but I can't recall if it was banked at the other end.

Speed Demon · 7 Mar 2002, 20:37 (Ref:230212)

No, the South Curve at AVUS was never banked. You can read more about it in part two of the histories. Part four is now online, bringing the story up-to-date.

strad · 7 Mar 2002, 20:46 (Ref:230227)

The reason I asked is I have this picture and it says it's Ken Evans @ Crystal Palace.

Ah well it says its too big and I don't know how to make it smaller...it says it's Ken Evans in a P3 @ Crystal..........

strad · 7 Mar 2002, 20:50 (Ref:230230)

heres one for you...

strad · 7 Mar 2002, 20:52 (Ref:230232)

Sorry but, I just had to find something small enough...HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... You'll note that the Railton was a huge machine.

Vitesse · 8 Mar 2002, 00:34 (Ref:230485)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob29
AFAIK it was only bikes.The speedway track became the paddock when the road circuit opened in 1937.Was replaced by the athletics stadium in 1962,when paddock was moved to top straight.BTW Some of the footpaths can still be walked on.

Er, not quite right Rob ... I came across this post on another BB while searching for something else (ain't it always the way?)

Are you aware of what was described as "midget car racing" on a dirt oval at Crystal Palace sometime in the 1930's?

From Phillip Parfitt's book "Racing At Crystal Palace":

"Midget cars were also raced, but perhaps surprisingly did not provide much crowd appeal and also proved very expensive for the competitors. The best known drivers were Walter Mackereth and C.S. Dellow, with international competition provided by Frenchman Jean Reville and one Spike Rhiando, English-domiciled but variously reported as hailing from Mexico or Canada."

There also is a picture and caption. The caption notes that the midget racing was abandoned after less than a year. That's the only mention though, no other details.

The cars look like "midget" versions of 30's era GP cars rather than the U.S. style midgets, but it was a dirt oval.

Ray Bell · 8 Mar 2002, 02:53 (Ref:230560)

Quote:

Originally posted by JGM
....some information about Miramas .....I think it was owned by a tyre company for a while but the last I heard it was owned by BMW.

Kleber, that would be, I think... I recall reading about Kleber's endurance testing of tyres in the front columns of Road & Track about 1978 or so.

Quote:

Originally posted by Speed Demon
And I thought the 1996 Monaco GP was bad...

Ahh, the innocence of the young... many a GP has finished with fewer limping home than would complete the points positions...

Quote:

Originally posted by strad
The reason I asked is I have this picture and it says it's Ken Evans @ Crystal Palace.
Ah well it says its too big and I don't know how to make it smaller...it says it's Ken Evans in a P3 @ Crystal...

Download Irfanview and you can do that nicely... find Irfanview on a search engine and follow it through to get the download, it's only 800kb and enables you to reduce the pic, reverse it, all sorts of things except crop it...

And then post it please, I'd like to see that...

strad · 8 Mar 2002, 12:25 (Ref:230780)

Okay, Let's try this........

strad · 8 Mar 2002, 12:28 (Ref:230781)

Thank Ray! Now I have a new toy to play with...

Stoffer Green · 8 Mar 2002, 12:36 (Ref:230786)

I love these old photos,your latest is of the P3 Alfa at Crystal Palace alright, your other shot is of John Cobb (I think) in his Napier Railton at Brooklands

strad · 8 Mar 2002, 14:55 (Ref:230888)

I belive you're right ...this one is Cobb for sure...But in a Sunbeam

strad · 8 Mar 2002, 15:02 (Ref:230891)

This is Cobb at "the bump"

Stoffer Green · 8 Mar 2002, 15:27 (Ref:230909)

Strad, I think you will find that the Sunbeam's driver was Anthony Powys-Lybbe. Incidentally, I have a brother who has actually driven both that Sunbeam Tiger and the Cobb Napier Railton!

Ray Bell · 8 Mar 2002, 15:36 (Ref:230910)

It's my suspicion that the Alfa Tipo B is one which came to Australia. It's the late model with the Dubonnet front suspension... and one of these cars was purchased from England in 1938 by Jack Saywell and was the most highly favoured car in the 1939 Australian Grand Prix.

It ran that race and the following Bathurst, but that's about all it did before it had its engine damaged by an incompetent mechanic and the power unit was despatched to Italy for repair. Bad move... the engine was never returned. Later it served with Alvis, GMC and Corvette power before being returned to England and being reunited with an original 2.9-litre straight 8.

If this is the car, it also was involved in a spectator fatality at Bathurst in 1955.

Glad I could help with that program, strad...

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