SECRET BALLOT: Do you approve Ferrari's team order at Zeltweg?

[Valve Bounce]

This is a simple ballot to see what percentage of forum members approve Ferrari's team orders to gift the race win to Michael Schumacher. I am posting this poll because I know there are many Ferrari supporters here and also many who support Michael Schumacher. However, because of the tide against Ferrari's strategy, many have decided to remain silent on this issue to avoid a slanging bout with fellow forum members. There is no need to voice your anger or agreement here, as there are numerous theads for you to do so. The results of this poll may help stress our letter to the FIA if the result is overwhelmingly negative.

[Red]

Wow VB, you really want to see the results? Anyway, you poll should have a third option, like not so sure. While I am a bit dissapointed, I understand Ross Brawn and I aprove him. I voted "Yes"

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry, this is a straight :yes, no ballot. If anyone is not sure about this, then their vote is irrelevant to this particular poll. Thanks for your vote, Red.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[Jukebox]

If there's still TGF and Ferrari fans here who still feels that it was the right thing to do....i'd be the one who would want to whip some sense into em.

[Red]

The question was NOT if I feel if it was right or wrong. It was if I aprove it. And yes, I'm as tifoso as always.

[drexel]

It seemed harsh but it was a ruthless decision by a ruthless team.
Making decisions to please the fans is WWF and contrived. Doing everything you can within the rules to win, is Professional Sport.

[Jukebox]

Professional sport?

Well..how do you explain to an 8 year old kid who never fails to wear his favourite Ferrari t-shirt eventhough he watches the races every two weeks from infront of the telly and asks why "Rubens slowed down the car and let Michael pass him to take the chequered flag?"

[Gt_R]

Ironical it may seem, but after this incident, i felt that my support for Ferrari is stronger than ever...and that i would have to thank the usual bunch of, unforgiving maybe, uprighteous definitely, critics~ Their over-reaction and over harsh criticism made me feel more for Ferrari.

As for this vote, VB would call it irrelevant. I feel it was probably wrong. From a F1 fan's point of view, i don't particularly like it. But from a Ferrari fan's view, i see the reasoning behind, their open-ness to this issue, and i understand it. So i guess i approve it, as harsh as it may seem.

Its not ruthless, just very hard decisions.

[Red]

Originally posted by Jukebox
[Well..how do you explain to an 8 year old kid who [...]

Easy. "You have 2 favorite guys who drive for Ferrari, but unfortunately there is only 1 trophy. It is more likely that the guy who has the nasty habit to win 9 races per season to win it." (Oh, by the way, you should teach him that life sucks. But not now, allow him some more years of happines)

[Jukebox]

That he'll have to figure out himself i guess about the 'life sucks' part but i had to resort to a little white lie as i don't want him to look down towards his favourite idol & team but what i'm trying to say here is that they have an obligation to all the fans as to not manipulate the championship and resort such utter disgrace decision makings...Fans want to see them win races but with honour please.... as it's better to loose and being able to held our heads high.

I always say to my kid, work hard if you want to achieve your aims and get good results no matter in what you do if you want things to be the way you wanted it to be....it's a morale dilemma

[Red]

True. But if the probability of achieving your goal is somewhat slim, it is better to help your teammate to achieve his goal rather than a competitor.

[Jukebox]

We can obviously see that the F2002 cars are definitely the fastest car on the grids and in a class of it's own. The cars are clearly 30 seconds ahead of the nearest Williams for the last two races and they still say they have to have secured wins. The WCC is obviously in their bag and for the WCC, clearly TGF is still ahead of the two Williams.

For god's sake Michael...it's time that you make the team realise and make them understand that you'll only win races only if it's from your own effort. You are not making such a good example for the younger generations of your fans.

[Red]

No, Jukebox, that's where you make a mistake. It is NOT his own effort; he (same as every other driver on the grid) does not "run" all by himself. It is a team that work together.

[Jukebox]

True Red...in any sports, it's always a team's effort but when you are actually in the cockpit and just about hundreds of meters away from the finish line and in that kind of situation...that's a decision you have to make whether the management's orders are right. In TGF's case, if he backed off then he'll be seen as disobeying the management's decision not of the teams' as both cars crossed the line ahead of the rest.

Just think back if it was a collective decision early in the season to let either driver go for the WDC after say 5 or 6 races, why make it looked as if Rubens had all the bad luck with all the car troubles early in the season?

[Red]

Well.... firstly you have to take that decision in a matter of seconds. Secondly I'm not sure if "democracy" is the best way to run a Formula 1 team; actually I'm sure: it is not. You get an order, you execute it and after that maybe, just maybe, you raise questions.

And now Jukebox, please, please, don't bring the conspiracy theory once again!!! Ferrari want BOTH championships, and as the cherry on the pie they also want the second place. You don't really believe that they sabotaged Rubens....

[Jukebox]

R..I have always been against controversial allegations made with regards to Ruben's car but after last weekend, it made me think back again about all those possibilities ya know. Anyway i'm in no position to make allegations just like that without any valid evidents.

As a team they have an obligation to their company's profile and to their fans all over but if their company's profile is the only thing that they only care, then i'm afraid in the process the number of their fans will depreciate.

I felt sorry for both of the Ferrari's drivers especially TGF as people are bashing him up for something he has nothing to do with.

[DNQ]

Ooops, I voted yes by mistake....

[Red]

Originally posted by Jukebox
As a team they have an obligation to their company's profile and to their fans all over but if their company's profile is the only thing that they only care, then i'm afraid in the process the number of their fans will depreciate.

Ah-HA!! Well, those 2 sentences are strongly related; you improve your company image by gaining admiration of fans. Whether or not that decision will help it is not for me to say. They believed that it's the best for the team and I respect their judgement. But somehow I believe that being ruthless is better than looking idiots if they'd lose it without teamorders.

[Red]

Originally posted by DNQ
Ooops, I voted yes by mistake....

No you didn't. Still only 4 votes.

[Jukebox]

They will look more like an idiot by not acknowledging Rubens is a part of the team. Company image and admiration because they have winning cars? Yes but No because they fail to realise that decisions like that could effect their company's image because it's fans like me that buy their cars.

[Red]

Rubens IS part of the team Jukebox despite the general consensus that he's treated like a dog. (at leats in this forum) And Ferrari does not favor Michael just because his blue eyes, but because they he's a better driver and chances to win with him are bigger. It's business, nothing personal. Professional sport, professional team.

[Jukebox]

The part that those drivers are being paid is true for being professionals and not to question team orders, but the part of a professional team/company to upheld their corporate image is wrong and in the long run they will start to feel the pinch. Like i said the WDC is virtually in the bag and why not make it an interesting possibility between Rubens and TGF and i know that Rubens can repeat the same feat again and again

I'm very sure their main sponsors wouldn't like this one bit as they are also directly affected for sponsoring Ferrari.

[Red]

OK, maybe I was not exactly clear when I said that I agree with the decision. Maybe it was a wrong one (and I also feel that way) for the reason you just mentioned (among others), but the managers are just humans and they can make mistakes every now and then (IF that was a mistake). What I wanted to say is that I surely do support their decision and most definitely my support for Ferrari will not change.

[Jukebox]

Having said that Red...my support towards Ferrari inlight of the technology breakthroughs that they had introduced and come out would still remain the same but i do hope that they would be more sensitive and uphold morale values rather than concentrating only on getting results. I hope this will be a lesson for them as to think twice before repeating such shameless act ever again. Lets hope that Ferrari will be remembered as the winning team not only because they have the best cars but also because they also have the best team.

[Red]