|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
13 Jun 2002, 04:28 (Ref:312208) | #1 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,643
|
The "Team Orders" Dilemma
We all have our thoughts on Austria, and what we think the FIA should do. And as the following story suggests, maybe there is no good answer.
The "Team Orders" Dilemma from grandprix.com What do you think? |
||
__________________
#Keepfightingmichael |
13 Jun 2002, 05:45 (Ref:312240) | #2 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
|
I believe that the following paragraph illustrates the entire article:
Quote:
Last edited by Red; 13 Jun 2002 at 05:51. |
|||
|
13 Jun 2002, 06:36 (Ref:312253) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,491
|
There need not be any issue in future
Cars can be adjusted from the pits these days, cars can have an extra 10 kilos of fuel, the whole problem can be addressed in a number of ways that nobody knows anything about.
There is an avenue of adjusting hte speed of cars from the pits without having to give team orders anymore. Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img] |
||
|
13 Jun 2002, 07:16 (Ref:312258) | #4 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
|
But at Austria, Ferrari din't choose that route.
|
||
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
13 Jun 2002, 07:24 (Ref:312260) | #5 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
|
Next time when they'll do it (my guess, after Schumacher wins the title) they'll put up a show with Rubens and Michael overtaking each other 20 times during the last laps and everyone will fall off the chairs in screams of delight and applauses. Now THAT's increased entertainment!. Err I mean SPORT. Overtaking! Yes!
Last edited by Red; 13 Jun 2002 at 07:25. |
||
|
13 Jun 2002, 07:47 (Ref:312279) | #6 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,643
|
Where are the sarcasim police when you neeed them?
|
||
__________________
#Keepfightingmichael |
13 Jun 2002, 07:49 (Ref:312283) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
|
I'm clean officer! It was not me!
|
||
|
13 Jun 2002, 07:55 (Ref:312289) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,212
|
Yeah lets have a fiesta between Schummi and Rubens with lotsa overtaking manouvres just for the sake of satisfying everybody. Or maybe we can get the Williams and Mclarens to participate as well
|
||
__________________
more hors3epower |
13 Jun 2002, 07:59 (Ref:312293) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,212
|
er am i busted?
|
||
__________________
more hors3epower |
13 Jun 2002, 09:18 (Ref:312343) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,035
|
Errr wasn't the melbourne 98 a decision between the drivers, NOT the team? Or have I got it wrong?
If thats so then that was nothing like the Ferrari incident. |
||
__________________
le bad boy |
13 Jun 2002, 09:26 (Ref:312347) | #11 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,643
|
Why does it matter Paul? Is it the actual decision or the the fact that Ferrari made that decision thats the problem?
|
||
__________________
#Keepfightingmichael |
13 Jun 2002, 09:26 (Ref:312348) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
|
Paul-Paul! Anyway, the point of :[...]it was the first race of the year, the cars' reliability was unknown. To allow the drivers to race each other when they were clearly superior to the rest of the field, and thus risk breakdowns, was not sensible[...] was...? I did not want to dissect that, I was questioning the unbiased article.
|
||
|
13 Jun 2002, 09:34 (Ref:312350) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
|
Mika and David decided the first that would arrive at the first corner would win the race. At least, there was COMPETITION between the two for a few yards, that's more than the competition Schumacher suffers from Barrichello.
|
||
__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
13 Jun 2002, 09:38 (Ref:312354) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
|
Indeed. And the definition of "race fixing" is "...decided the first that..."
|
||
|
13 Jun 2002, 09:39 (Ref:312356) | #15 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
|
THAT article...its only worth a read while in e toilet poo-ing... but...wait a minute...i don't put my computer in the toilet!
But anyway, i think the following quote from DC is quite note-worthy. Canadian Post Race Conference: ... Q: People have been characterising the Ferrari dominance as being just that, dominance, but over the last couple of races we have seen that one or both can certainly be beaten. Is that uncertainty a reason that team orders should be a part of Formula One? DC: Well, I think that it shows that, in certain circumstances, a dominant team can still be beaten and I recall back to when McLaren were a lot more competitive than they are now, and there was the odd race where we were comprehensively beaten where in other races we were very strong. So I think it just shows that nothing can be taken for granted in a Grand Prix season. Lots of things can go on at different tracks and the whole team order thing, nothing has changed there for many, many years, so it is more about the public being educated about what is allowed rather than anything the team should be doing. That's down, I guess, to the governing body to inform people what the rules are and for you all to inform the public what they are watching." ... That basically says it all.... BUT WAIT...doesn't DC saying that join the ranks of "blind TGF fans"?!! |
||
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
13 Jun 2002, 12:48 (Ref:312601) | #16 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
|
Well, even JV thought that Team Orders weren't a problem.
I agree with his position, though. Don't act embarrassed. Be a man, take the abuse that goes with your position and decision. If TGF had've been as unrepentant as the Toad, at least we'd know that he bought into the team marketing concept. As it is, he's looked self-absorbed and whiny. In short, a half-man. He should be able to say to racing fans, "look, I'm trying to win the championship, not individual races, and I've earned this respect from the team. Take the long view." Instead he cowers behind Brawn and Todt, and suggests it won't happen again (ppffft!). |
||
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
13 Jun 2002, 13:20 (Ref:312639) | #17 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,189
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
13 Jun 2002, 13:38 (Ref:312659) | #18 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,577
|
The main thing from the incident that detracted from michael was that he openly blamed everyone but himself for the decision...and the team let him get away with it! That, beyond anything else, demonstrated how much clout schu yeilds within Ferrari and thats not good for the sport.
|
||
__________________
Brought to you by Glagnar's Human Rinds: "A-bunch-a-munch-crunch-a-human" |
13 Jun 2002, 13:42 (Ref:312663) | #19 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,434
|
Quote:
I like Jacques, but I dont pay attention to what he says anymore - his track record isent as bright as he would like us to believe. |
|||
|
13 Jun 2002, 14:10 (Ref:312680) | #20 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,035
|
Some drivers are talking about educating the public, but wasn't the Austria reaction our way of saying that we disagree STRONGLY about those actions?
|
||
__________________
le bad boy |
13 Jun 2002, 17:12 (Ref:312823) | #21 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,306
|
Well put Paul.
I want to see a Sport. Fairly raced and may the best Driver/Car combination win. Each race should be a flat-out contest and the WDC should be awarded to the man who who at the end of the season consistently WAS BETTER than the others. Its a simple concept really, but the clarity of it has been blurred by commercial influences and the legitimacey of the engineered result. Maybe it is a bit naive to want to see racing, but surely the blatant and cynical way that orders were imposed in Austria was detrimental to the notion of "Sport". |
||
__________________
Go Tribe!!!! |
15 Jun 2002, 09:33 (Ref:314240) | #22 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 127
|
Quote:
[kwd, I've only edited your post to separate Eero's words from yours. R. ] Last edited by R; 15 Jun 2002 at 10:20. |
|||
__________________
eddie irvine to a bouncer at a club in dublin,"but i"m eddie irvine!" bouncer "**** off eddie irvine is a famous race car driver" |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
"if..... then i'll eat my hat" - request side orders here | bella | National & International Single Seaters | 47 | 27 Jun 2005 08:25 |
"The most anticipated new motor racing team in Australia..." in sponsor trouble? | GTRMagic | Australasian Touring Cars. | 38 | 17 Jun 2005 23:23 |
Hakinnen wins, and says "I didn't hear [team orders]" | EERO | Formula One | 13 | 17 Jul 2000 15:50 |