Forbidden materials in F1?

[regidor]

Need some help. Can anyone tell me if exists any forbidden material in the F1 engine construction?
Thanks.

[Jay]

Should this be in the technical forum?

[Marshal]

I think Beryllium and some Beryllium containing alloys are banned. MacLaren used them, Ferrari didn't, so Ferrari asked the FIA to ban them on cost and safety grounds. Otherwise, I think you can use anything you like.

Why are you asking, are you planning on building an F1 powerplant regidor? I always thought that a ceramic block could be the way forward, but you'd have to use something other than water to cool it to get full advantage of the potential higher opperating temperatures. Differential thermal expansion could be a problem if you are planning to metal bits with it though.

Oops, I think I just had a sad engineer moment....

[regidor]

Originally posted by Marshal
I think Beryllium and some Beryllium containing alloys are banned. MacLaren used them, Ferrari didn't, so Ferrari asked the FIA to ban them on cost and safety grounds. Otherwise, I think you can use anything you like.

Why are you asking, are you planning on building an F1 powerplant regidor? I always thought that a ceramic block could be the way forward, but you'd have to use something other than water to cool it to get full advantage of the potential higher opperating temperatures. Differential thermal expansion could be a problem if you are planning to metal bits with it though.

Oops, I think I just had a sad engineer moment....

Thanks for your quickly answer. No, I don't want to build an F1 engine. I'm writing an article about it. It seems that you're a very experienced boy in F1 themes. If you know curious things about F1, feel free to tell me please -cams, valves, pistons, cylinder head...-.
Best regards.

[Marshal]

I'm afraid my knowledge isn't that great, I'm just a materials engineer with a passion for racing.

Engine blocks and heads are currently sand cast aluminium I think (something like A357 alloy). Pistons I think are titanium (probably 6Al-4V), as are conrods. Crankshafts are probably High strength low alloy steel, and I don't think F1 engines run with camshafts, I always thought that the pneumatically opperated valves did away for the need for a camshaft. I might be wrong on that though. Anyone else have some more concrete information?

[Peter Mallett]

No Marshal, I don't think they have concrete in them

[enzo]

Camshafts are used - it's just that the valves are loaded by air springs instead of coil springs.

Block and head alloys are probably of a zirconium alloyed aluminium. Zircomuim raises the tensile strength to over 100 kpsi in most cases, with good retention of strength at high temps compared to normal alu alloys (most alu alloys turn to butter at the temps that F1 engined now run). These are ex-armament alloys that have been released to general useage during the last few years.

If not of the above alu alloys, they would most likely use MMC alu alloys. These came into general useage about 8 years ago and are now widely used for brake calipers and such.

Cranks & con rods are generally titanium, and pistons of aluminium coated with ceramic. It's highly likely that full ceramic pistons are at least being experimented with, if not already used. Cylinder sleeves are quite often of full ceramic.

Heads & intake manifolds generally have their ports ceramic lined.

There have been some good articles in Race Car Engineering on F1 engine designs, so you may want to peruse back issues for more authoritative information.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pugeot using concrete !

[Marshal]

What? You mean Peugeot are already using ceramics......

On a more serious note I think the problem with ceramic pistons is they don't expand as quickly as the Al block does with temperature, so you could maintain yor piston bore tolerance as you would want to. Ferrari ran into similar problems in the mid 80's when it was rumoured that they tried to make a carbon fibre composite block for a 1.5l turbo, but couldn't make it work.

[desmo]

Alot of misinformation here: Beryllium engine internals are banned beginning the start of next season. Mac are presumed to be using Be alloy pistons and liners this year. Ferrari are presumed not to be. I don't know. Pistons on most cars are Al alloy, No one runs Ti pistons. Con rods are all Ti, as are valves. Composites are illegal for internal engine parts, so no carbon fiber bits in the engine. The rules mandate that both cams and crank must be steel. All blocks are cast and machined Al alloy.

[Dino IV]

That's correct, desmo. Beryllium is allowed this season, inside the engine. It's banned however since last season for any other elements of the car, as soon the lot started using it for brake calipers etc.

Also enzo's remark about camshaft's is true. They still use - unbelievable eh, try come up with something else that can do the same as effective - camshafts but no coil springs to close them, instead of which air pressure is used.

Electromagnetic valve lifting and closing seems to be the future, but it still isn't ready for use in F1. I might be wrong but isn't the stunning Hunswick Haslam superbike from Oz equipped with such a system? Oops, Hunswick Haslam is from NZ right? Late John Britten was the one that put superbike Oz on the map. Really impressive engineering.

Back to F1 engines, the valves alone are true masterpieces; aren't they hollow and natrium-cooled?

Don't forget to post you're article here when you finished, regidor.

[regidor]

What a lot of info, boyz! That's a good surprise. All of you are a very well F1 technics... Well, thanks for the info.
The article is about a comparaison between the F1/SBK/MotoGP 4 stroke rules. So simple. The article it will be published in the Solo Moto magazine, Spain -in Spanish, of course!-. Thank you! We stay on contact.

Best Regards.

[Sharky]

Isn't renault working on an engine that uses ceramic material that can whitstand higher temperatures and therefore need less cooling (which would mean smaller radiators and less drag plus a gain in engine efficiency).

Anyway......I think that Tungstene and/or magnesion is banned....at least for use in the car's floor as ballast.....so it looks like they'll use non radioactive uranium instead (!!!)