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2 Jun 2003, 23:43 (Ref:618570)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 625
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Why no tire warmers?
Considering the cold temperatures on The Mile this last weekend, wouldn't tire warmers have helped on the start? Does anyone know why CART bans the use of tire warmers?
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3 Jun 2003, 00:05 (Ref:618586)
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#2 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 63
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These poor guys are broke, and we are worried about the extra expense of tire warmers? It was not as bad as the Indy500 with respect to restart spins.
Next year I bet it's 20+ degrees warmer during that race. The weather was the problem here. Last edited by Apexx; 3 Jun 2003 at 00:06. |
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3 Jun 2003, 01:03 (Ref:618625)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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Yes, I have wondered about the "expense" of tire warmers versus the expense of driving directly into a concrete wall!
The tire warmers must be very, very expensive! 
Last edited by JohnSSC; 3 Jun 2003 at 01:04. |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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3 Jun 2003, 01:46 (Ref:618648)
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#4 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 63
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How about fluffy pillows on the walls?
Last edited by Apexx; 3 Jun 2003 at 01:48. |
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3 Jun 2003, 02:48 (Ref:618683)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,744
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CART's about real racing, they don't need that ****. Clearly we've seen some interesting results due to cold tires. Anyone else see what Mario said about the first lap crash?
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__________________
No Rotor, No Motor. |
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3 Jun 2003, 03:19 (Ref:618704)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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One more expensive piece of junk to remove driver skill from the equation? No thanks.
Though why not some electric space heaters?
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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3 Jun 2003, 03:37 (Ref:618716)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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Agreed with what others have said above. Knowing how to deal with cold tires is an element of racing, and something they should have to deal with. The best drivers on the circuit are good at getting up to speed quickly on cold tires (remember how Monotoya was).
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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3 Jun 2003, 03:53 (Ref:618728)
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#8 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,153
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Cars on cold tires are fun to watch. Plus it got Lavin out of the way at Long Beach.
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3 Jun 2003, 04:04 (Ref:618742)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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They really aren't that expensive.
Then again, Zanardi lost his legs after spinning on cold tyres leaving the pits... And I think it was **** that the cars were held under pit lane speed right up until the exit of 2. Imagine how that could have stuffed people up if there were more green/caution pit stops. I say bring them in for safety's sake |
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__________________
Love you long time |
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3 Jun 2003, 04:16 (Ref:618748)
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#10 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 199
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Crash,
Zanardi's tires were not changed during his last pit stop, therefore tirewarmers would not have helped him. His accident was unfortunate. But I do agree with bringing them to the series. Anything that helps safety must be good. |
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3 Jun 2003, 04:26 (Ref:618755)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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Ah, taa.
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__________________
Love you long time |
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3 Jun 2003, 04:29 (Ref:618758)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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I don't think they'd help safety in any major way... You could say having traction control would also be for safety as fewer guys would spin, but I think it just takes too much away.
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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3 Jun 2003, 08:11 (Ref:618875)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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So what if Manning had a bigger off than he did?
How many cars do you see spin whilst hitting the gas on the way out of the pits? All it will take is for someone to spin off into someone being serviced in the pits, killing a couple people. It'd be all over. But I spose we shouldn't worry about that until it happens
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__________________
Love you long time |
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3 Jun 2003, 10:58 (Ref:619008)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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I agree with the skill factor being important and all but tire warmers seem like something that are more of a safety item than a "driver aid."
Although keeping Lavin out of the way is a bit of a plus... |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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3 Jun 2003, 13:11 (Ref:619137)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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Fine, why not use them then? It's not really that big of deal.. and they do use them in testing to minimize the number of warm up laps they have to do before getting up to speed.
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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3 Jun 2003, 20:57 (Ref:619672)
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#16 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 322
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I won my kart race last week from 7th place on the first lap because the 6 guys ahead of me couldn't remember "COLD TIRES" I'm torn on a decision.
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__________________
It's a great great day for a motorcar race. J Stewart |
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3 Jun 2003, 21:05 (Ref:619682)
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#17 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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Quote:
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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3 Jun 2003, 22:15 (Ref:619751)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 696
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Tire warmers....
... it's an older editorial from AR1 by Mark Cipolloni (2000)... but very interesting...
”... A set of tire warmers cost around $3,000. A team would need two sets per car for a total one-time cost of $12,000 for a 2-car team. $12,000 is small change when today's budgets run around $20 million per year. More importantly, we have seen more than one driver crash on a warm-up lap, or on a pit stop out-lap, due to cold tires, wiping out a $400,000 car in the process. That only needs to happen to a team once and they could pay for their tire warmers many times over...” hmm...?!? : http://www.autoracing1.com/MarkC/001...armers.htm:eek |
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3 Jun 2003, 22:30 (Ref:619768)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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You have a point there, carsten. Still, running fast on cold tires is a skill I don't want to see removed from the sport.
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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3 Jun 2003, 22:39 (Ref:619778)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,909
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Quote:
"Just how hard do you want to push your right foot?" Just a shame that modern "race" drivers don't have to learn that skill, as well as all the other skills that have been taken away from them by electronics. |
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__________________
Never explain–your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway |
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3 Jun 2003, 23:01 (Ref:619799)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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Lee, the tires would still be "cold" in that they are nowhere near race temps. Also, during Safety Car cautions the tires cool considerably. I think the tire management skill would still be needed.
No matter how skilled someone is, it would be a shame to throw mega bucks away because one is just too macho to admit that slightly warmer tires would be useful. Still would love to hear CART's rationale behind banning the critters. |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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4 Jun 2003, 00:00 (Ref:619868)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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You have a point there, carsten. Still, running fast on cold tires is a skill I don't want to see removed from the sport.
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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4 Jun 2003, 00:32 (Ref:619894)
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#23 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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Quote:
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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4 Jun 2003, 13:22 (Ref:620549)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 696
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Manning: ..."Coming off the pit speed limiter I got on the grass big time," he exclaimed. "The tires were so cold and that cost me several spots. I felt bad because my guys had just given me such a great pit stop... It was so cold you had to fight just as hard on the yellow flag laps to keep the wheels from spinning."...
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4 Jun 2003, 18:19 (Ref:620887)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,193
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Why the hell they'll need tire warmers? Champ Cars are driver oriented series, unlike Formula 1.
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__________________
Think, then act. Don't act, then think. -Jamie Hyneman |
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