[WTCC] ETCC to become WTCC?

[SALEEN S7R]

SOURCE: WWW.FIATOURINGCARS.COM

During his visit to Donington Park for the fifth LG Super Racing Weekend of the season, the President of the FIA, Max Mosley, met a number of journalists to discuss the future of the FIA European Touring Car Championship amongst other things. When he was asked if touring cars might become a World Championship, Mr. Mosley answered: “It’s possible, if certain conditions are fulfilled. The main one is that it has to be on at least three continents and have a genuine world calendar.

Any of the FIA Championships have the potential to become a World Championship, but we have very stringent minimum requirements because we don’t want to give the title ‘World Championship’ unless it is genuinely warranted. The main requirement is at least three continents, at least four Manufacturers if it is a Manufacturers Championship, and that the standard of the competition and the presentation of the Championship are at the highest level.” Would being a World Championship put the costs up considerably? “Not necessarily. The transport costs can be very high, but they need not necessarily be huge if you are properly organised. The World Rally Championship, because they have reconnaissance cars, and gravel cars, and so on, they have to go by boat. But if you do away with the reconnaissance cars, and the gravel cars, then suddenly you can go by air for the same cost. And there you are talking about relatively modest amounts of money for the same budget. You have to keep the weight down.

If they insist on taking vast amounts of equipment it gets very expensive. But to fly a touring car from Europe to Japan is not hugely expensive.” On this matter, ETCC promoter Marcello Lotti pointed out. “I totally agree with the President. I can’t say that I have already the three continents and the four Manufacturers, although we do know that two or three extra-European Manufacturers would be happy to see the ETCC turning into the WTCC.

Our goal, should a World Championship be organised, is that it could be afforded at the same costs which are currently being spent for the ETCC. This is why the first request we addressed to the overseas promoters who have already contacted us, is to cover the teams’ transportation and travel expenses.” In the picture: the President of the FIA with Marcello Lotti in Donington.

ETCC Media:

[BootsOntheSide]

Being able to venture to two additional continents without increasing the coasts seems optimistic, so I suspect this will remain as a pipe-dream. however, thigns can be done,a nd it would be great if the series could take in Japan, the US, Canada and ustralia, and maybe feature some drivers from around the world.

[Rob29]

Please not. Last time they tried it c1987 it went belly up after one season.

[codename_47]

and the presentation of the Championship are at the highest level

Oh well then.......being on Eurosport won't help then.

*Not Eurosport's biggest fan*

Though we could begin the old "What tracks around the world would you like to see added?" specualtion....

How about Bathurst and Laguna Seca anyone? (There's your three continents Max! )

[speedy king]

If it goes ahead which i believe is very un-realistic it would be good to have people like:
Britain:James Thompson, Anthony Reid, Matt neal, andy Priaulx
Germany:Frank Biela, Jo Winkelhoc, Peter Kox
France:Yvan Muller, Alain Menu (his homeland speaks french!)
Australia: Paul Radisich, Aaron Slight (i know their new zealnd! lol)
Sweeden: Rickard Rydel
Italy: Gabriellie Tarquini etc.

But as i say it is highly un-likely

[KA]

Originally posted by Rob29
Please not. Last time they tried it c1987 it went belly up after one season.

Back in 87 it was never really allowed to have a chance of succeeding- there was a total lack of any real promotional effort, and the FIA were meddling with the series right from the start- I seem to remember Autosport's season review making a comment something like 'anyone would think the FIA didn't want it to succeed'.

I suspect it would be done very differently now- back in 87, we had a small number of registered entries, and the bulk of the grid at each round made up of a mixture of teams who were doing a number of the races without being officially registered for the series (and thus ineligible for points...) and local teams making one-off appearances

This time round, I guess they'd ask manufacturers or teams to sign up for the whole season, and it could only happen if there was enough support- the fragmentation of touring car regs worldwide is such that you couldn't depend on having any local entries (other than maybe local drivers having guest appearances with registered teams) to fill out the grid. I'm guessing the ETCC would be axed to make way for it- last time, the ETCC carried on alongside the new series

I'd love to see it happen, but personally I think it's a few years off at best, and even then fairly unlikely- Max was talking about a minimum of 4 manufacturers as a bottom-line requirement, but realistically you'd need at least 5-6 manufacturers to commit to it, maybe with 3 cars each, for it to work

[Muppet]

For a WTCC to be taken seriously outside Europe you're gonna need V8s and good looking cars. Just look what happened to Super Touring in the US and Oz.

[KA]

Originally posted by Muppet
For a WTCC to be taken seriously outside Europe you're gonna need V8s and good looking cars. Just look what happened to Super Touring in the US and Oz.

Trouble is, that isn't going to happen- there aren't enough European manufacturers making that kind of car- and there's a big difference between having a single round of a world championship visiting a country and trying to promote a whole championship in a country with a very different racing tradition, which is what they did in the US and Oz

[Jimeth]

Peter Kox is dutch btw

[kmchow]

Originally posted by Muppet
For a WTCC to be taken seriously outside Europe you're gonna need V8s and good looking cars. Just look what happened to Super Touring in the US and Oz.

Well, you wonder how the ASTC would have turned out if Holden and Ford stepped in with FULL Works entries and support. The problem is that existing "domestic" manufacturers always only care about keeping the existing national series well protected. Every other series are on "their own".

[kmchow]

Originally posted by KA
Trouble is, that isn't going to happen- there aren't enough European manufacturers making that kind of car- and

It seems that except for Australia, every other country in the world associate V8 with luxury and expensive cars. At best, V6 is the typical engine, most cars are powered by. Furthermore, 4 cylinder cars are the most popular due to fuel economy regs and market positioning. Racing 4 door 4 cylinder cars make the most sense!

Unfortunately, the failure of ST in countries like US,Canada and Australia are due more to a lack of national support by manufacturers than the series itself.

[alfasud]

Do Super2000 or even Superproduction rules get used anywhere outside of Europe? Certainly not in NZ - we did have a 2L touring car series with similar rules to Superproduction but it died. In Australia you can enter a Super2000 or Superproduction car in the Bathurst 24hrs, but there is no regular series for these cars. I don't think North America or Japan runs these classes either - correct me if I'm wrong here.

In the Group A days, before the '87 WTC, there were already non European cars running including the Aussie Holden Commodre, the Nissan Skyline Turbo and Toyota Supra :
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...87%20Cars.html

How much support would there be for a race in Japan if there would be no Japanese cars racing? Who would go to watch it in Australia - they already have a Bathurst 1000km race for the V8's and a 24hr race for GT's and Tourers.

Would it be a series of sprint races or long distance, like the old WTC? All these issues and more need to be addressed before you can have a World Championship.

[alfasud]

Opps, I'll correct myself here - there are some Honda Civics running in ETCC aren't there - are these the only non European cars?

[racer69]

A WTCC will only work with a ruleset that allows cars from all over the world to compete. Be it with 4 cylinder cars, V8s, FWD or RWD.......Group A

The only WTCC so far was a success in every way except that the man in charge didn't want it to succeed. They had great fields, quality drivers (Riccardo Patrese, then racing in f1, and Michael Andretti competed in the first race at Monza, great tracks and close competition on a whole (helped by the enduro format). It was also helped by the fact that so many countries ran to Group A (or something very similiar).

Best of all about the 1987 WTCC, a Holden won the first ever round, and Australia had 2 rounds (everyone else only had one )

Unless a shedload of countries adopt Super2000, a WTCC has no chance.

[KA]

Originally posted by alfasud
Do Super2000 or even Superproduction rules get used anywhere outside of Europe? Certainly not in NZ - we did have a 2L touring car series with similar rules to Superproduction but it died. In Australia you can enter a Super2000 or Superproduction car in the Bathurst 24hrs, but there is no regular series for these cars. I don't think North America or Japan runs these classes either - correct me if I'm wrong here.

That's the root of the problem. right now the touring car scene worldwide is so fragmented, with almost every country using their own local set of rules- even where 2-litre cars are used.

Back in 87, a WTCC was a possibility becuase of the widespread use of Group A regs- Europe, Australia and Japan all used them. It could also have been done in the supertouring period- at their peak, ST regs were being used right across Europe, Australia, Japan, USA, South America and South Africa.

The situation we've got now makes it difficult- the only way you could do it at present is by using the ETCC regs and basically expanding the number of countries that the series races in- you wouldn't get local teams entering, but if manufacturer support was strong enough then maybe extra cars could be run for local guest drivers at each round.

I perosnally think it's essential that there's some convergence of regulations over the next couple of years- I don't care whether it's BTCC regs, ETCC regs or even Production, for touring car racing to regain the status it held under supertouring- let alone have a world championship, you have to have one widely-used set of rules

[AlfaNut]

Lets bring a WTCC (ETCC) race to Indy. We can run Chevy Impalas against the dang foreigners.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by KA
That's the root of the problem. right now the touring car scene worldwide is so fragmented, with almost every country using their own local set of rules- even where 2-litre cars are used.

I agree. That is our biggest problem right now. And the introduction of a new series like Supercar V8 championship aren't helping the situation!

It could also have been done in the supertouring period- at their peak, ST regs were being used right across Europe, Australia, Japan, USA, South America and South Africa.

Those were quite some memorable years. I think ST peaked in '96/'97!

but if manufacturer support was strong enough then maybe extra cars could be run for local guest drivers at each round.

I think that would be the perfect hook. To have a few local or national racers driving in the championship when they come to town!

I perosnally think it's essential that there's some convergence of regulations over the next couple of years

Let's hope the fact that the FIA has stepped in with the S2000 rules will make that the rules to follow.

[tecmerc]

its gonna take several years for there to be enough series with the same rules, to run a world series. at least 5 or more.

i think that they should just leave every thing as it is.

[kmchow]

I think the chances of a WTCC being successful nowadays are better than in the past because there are more globally sold cars. IE: The Euro Accord finally made it's debut in NA as an Acura. The Vauxhall Astra should be sold in NA under several brands. Add to that the usual mix of BMWs, VWs and Volvos--we should be in business.

So all we need now are some globally recongized rules--S2000!

PS: Is Super 2000 also known as Sport 2000??

[Rob29]

Originally posted by kmchow


So all we need now are some globally recongized rules--S2000!

PS: Is Super 2000 also known as Sport 2000??

S2000 is small open sports cars in UK since 1977.This would cause confusion.Generally T=touring cars. S=sports cars. GT=grand touring(sports car with a roof)

[kmchow]

Ooops, I'm getting SP mixed up with S2000. According to this website, SP and Sport2000 are similar.
http://www.motorsports.lv/engl/about.htm

[Rob29]

Thanks kmchow,another previously unknown area of racing found-Baltic racing!!
Actually if you read it you will understand that SP-superproduction & S2000 are 2 separate series.Looks like the Finnish touring car series was called S2000 in the year 2000 which is VERY confusing!

[rdmdog]

And the introduction of a new series like Supercar V8 championship aren't helping the situation!

The V8 Supercar Championship grew out of Group A here after it faltered, its not a new thing, In fact it would be possible to be running a 1988 VN Commodore (Group A) in the current Konica series, and I know of one that gets entered regularly, dosent always make it to the grid though. Im digressing.

WTCC, great idea, get all those euro sh!t box manufacturers to produce a V8 Rear Wheel Drive here (Aust) and race them around the world. That would be FANTASTIC

The two things holding back our series is a lack of tracks that can cope with the cars, shouldnt be a problem over there, and the lack of people, more people watch Neighbours in London than live Down-Under! China should be good next year!

Amazing though that we still attract as big a crowd as the BTCC, isnt it?

[racer69]

Originally posted by rdmdog
WTCC, great idea, get all those euro sh!t box manufacturers to produce a V8 Rear Wheel Drive here (Aust) and race them around the world. That would be FANTASTIC

Except that only the purists would be interested, not the general public who wanna see cars they can relate to in Touring Car racing. Is an average person in Sweden going to be interested in a Holden Commodore?

I'll repeat the only way the WTCC will return is if it is a multi-class system which caters for the differing cars sold around the world. V8 RWD cars won't work as a whole in the northern hemisphere, and 2 litre FWD cars have been shown that they don't work in the Southern Hemisphere or America.

[JMeissner]

I don't understand buying a V8 normal sedan. A 4, 5 or 6 cylinder engine does the job just as efficient, or even more, and requires much less fuel and let out less dangerous exhausts.

I mean ok having a V8 in a Corvette, Cobra or any such sports car. But why having it in usual sedans you use every day...