Fontana

[jklein6419]

i dont know about you other cart fans, but i would like to see a 240 mph pole at fontana. this might be possible since there is no hanford device. but carts rules take away 50 hp for ovals. i say we all step up email cart and say we want the cars to keep the 750hp so they can fly around the track like were are all used to. i dont want a 226mph pole like the other series had today. they are are not the the fastest open wheel cars in the us, the champ cars are. so lets proove it.

[macdaddy]

Notice how CART no longer advertises itself as "The World's Fastest Racing"?

To be honest, it really doesn't make that big of a difference to me if the cars are running 230 or 240. Sure, I'd like to see faster times than any other series can muster, (just for bragging rights), but what's important is that the racing is close and exciting.

No Handford devices being used this year? What are their plans then, with regards to aero packages?

[Kicking-back]

240 mph is too fast

[Jay]

agreed...and if we want to be the fastest, the way to do it is to have minimal cautions, not raw speed. Last year was fast, but would have been much faster had so many engines not gone up in smoke.

[racerkeke]

The world closed-course record for auto racing is (still) held by Gil de Ferran, who got the pole for the Fontana race in 2000 with a speed of 241.428 mph. This is with the Handford Device. Michigan's record is 234.949 mph, also set in 2000, by Paul Tracy.

Once the Handford was mandated on superspeedways I noticed that speeds in the pack increased significantly because of the increased "tow". But in many cases the number of yellows, created in part by such huge packs, dropped the average lap speed down. Fastest average speed in a race is from 2002 -- 197.995 (Jimmy Vasser). No wallslappers at all in this race, four cautions.

Unfortunately with the number of superspeedway rookies in the field I do not foresee a 200 mph average race speed this year.

Ducking early and often,
keke

[ElScOrChO]

Since 241.428 mph was an average speed for the lap,

what is the fastest top speed achieved by a champ car?

[Jay]

top speed is difficult to say... but, I know at th end of the straights in 2000, the cars were hitting over 250mph.probably a bit more than that...craziness...

To be honest, I'm not sure what the point of risking our driver;s lives in order to brag about something we already know - that Champcars are the fastest open wheel racers (as long as an F1 car never gets to run at Fontana or michigan).

[corkholio]

Takagi actually crashed in the pits last year, but he was racing with a broken hip.

But really, the difference between 220 and 240 is so minimal that most people won't be able to notice the difference. If NASCAR can remain popular by not being the fastest, there is no need to risk the drivers for nothing more than a slogan.

[macdaddy]

Good post, Cork. And you're right when you suggest that the diff between 220 and 240 is not really perceptibe to the viewer. Once you get to a certain point, fast is fast. Over the years at MIS the lap times have varied, but I've never noticed any differences at all. You can't see anything but a blur of colour and noise regardless. And I'm certainly no engineer, but I'd suggest that the extra 20mph can often be crucial in the event of a mishap, and driver safety has ALWAYS got to be THE #1 priority.

[GP Racer]

It seems that most of us fans are in agreement that 240 MPH is a bit quick, but how do you think the drivers feel about it?
They always seem to want to go quicker, don't they?

[macdaddy]

Dunno about that, GP. A growing number of today's drivers seem to dislike the supertracks.

[The Snout]

As long as the Champcars need all the track as they exit turn 2. I don't like all this racing where cars hug the inside all the time to protect the racing line. Where are the days where cars used to have to handle, and they used all the track coming onto the back straight as Michigan, Fontana etc. As long as that continues and it's not a restrictor plate show, I'll be happy.

[Jay]

Originally posted by GP Racer
It seems that most of us fans are in agreement that 240 MPH is a bit quick, but how do you think the drivers feel about it?
They always seem to want to go quicker, don't they?

Depends who you ask, but i have a feeling you'd be hard pressed to find a driver in Champcars wanting to do 240mph laps...they like to race, but they're not crazy...in fact, I'd go as far as to say almost half of them would rather not race at Fontana (just a hunch)...a quote I keep dragging up from Ryan Hunter-Reay in an interview I did with him last year "open wheel cars that do 240 mph are not meant to be on ovals".

[Jordi]

What speeds did Unser Jr. reach in his 1000 hp Penske-Merc in 1994? Surely over 400 kph... (looks bigger than mph...)

Taking it into account, Champ Cars are reasonably safe at 390 kph. Greg died because his car was lifted by the ground differentials, but inside tyre walls, asphalt run-offs, the HANS and the SAFER barrier (which should be everywhere) have really improved safety at high speed ovals.

[Snrub]

I'm glad to hear that The Snout agrees with my thoughts on ovals right now.

Jordi, CART had more than 1000hp just a few years ago.

[gttouring]

Montoya's Target Honda was pushing the 1000 hp as well
I saw the inaugural race at Chicago Speedway (not the joliet travesty they call chicago, it is a parade track-nice facilities though)
any way the proper chicago mile track was awesome, and i saw the champcars do wheelies like well not as dramatic as sprint cars, they did certainly lift the fronts off hte ground! 1000hp indeed!
that was awesome stuff those years, i would let the cosworth guys pull another 250 hp from the new motor heh heh
safety is in the guys right foot anyway.

[racerkeke]

If you want anecdotal evidence on trap speeds, I was an observer at the entrance to T3 at Michigan from 1995 to 1997. All the teams set up traps just ahead of our station, and if you weren't "primary" it was fun to watch them clicking up as the pack hurtled towards you down the backstretch. I remember seeing one trap of over 277 mph the year before the Handfords came in, and 270-275 was pretty steady.

At 275 it was very difficult to identify the cars before they were past you -- it was amazing how much easier they were to see when the speeds came down just that little bit.

keke

[Jordi]

277 = 445 bloody kph!

Oh man, I want to witness a Champ Car blowing by me at the speed. I guess it won't be possible.

But I doubt CART cars ever reached 1000 hp in the last years. Figures mentioned before the cuts in power started were always in between 850-900 hp. Which was already 50 more than an F1 had in 1999 or 2000, for example.

[Snrub]

Damn I've had to argue with the F1 guys about this, I expect better from you Jordi! Now I have to dig it up....

Edit:
http://www.cart.com/News/Article.asp?ID=4517
"Don't forget, our cars weigh 400-500 pounds more than an F1 car," added Franchitti. "I think if we'd run our '99 spec cars here, our softer tires and had 1,000 horsepower like we did then, we'd have made some of those F1 people pretty embarrassed."

There's another quote somewhere that not only confirms that but suggests higher. I'll see if I can find that too.

[Jordi]

I'm 100% sure I never heard 1000 hp before today, but well, what can I do? Who does have reliable data of engine horsepower in 1999?

[racerkeke]

According to the 1999 CART Media Guide,
"Horsepower figures are difficult to pinpoint, as manufacturers closely guard their engines' exact numbers. Depending on turbocharger settings, engines can develop more than 800 horsepower. Tests have shown 0 to 60 mph takes 2.2 seconds and 0 to 100 mph takes 4.2 seconds."

And Jordi, I'm not sure you would want to. At that station they were close enough to touch. Especially since there was no fence there at the time. The displacement of air behind even one car physically PULLS you in towards the track. They also throw stuff -- getting hit with a tire worm at 270 mph HURTS. Not everyone enjoys this.

keke

[Jay]

Quotes in press releases often have exagerated data like that. Drivers and team owners exagerate quite a bit when they're trying to make a point - when it comes to technical issues, you probably know more than they do.

I really don't think Cart should go back to the 240mph lap days... I'm pretty sure the majority of the drivers would be against it, and in terms of crashing, a little bit of speed IS a big deal. A little speed scrubbed off equals an exponentially lighter hit (ie energy = .5 mass x velocity squared).

[jklein6419]

the reason why we need higher speeds is because the racing wont be as great as in the past. this will make up for it. if the public sees speed traps at 270mph, this will help get more interest back in the series.

[Jordi]

keke, thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure I had never heard more than 900 hp. As for being close to the cars, well, I'm a racing nut, so I guess I would do anything to be there. A bit difficult from Catalonia, but well

Personally, and keeping the drivers in mind, I think the formula for racing exhibited at Fontana last year was very good, as the drivers who had a good car were able to distance, instead of being trapped in the draft pack.

[gaines]

That's the key to me, not being trapped in a pack. Two or three of the best cars battling it out is fine with me. Pack racing doesn't sit well with me when it comes to open wheel cars. Stock cars can do it because when they flip they have a roof. I don't like seeing open wheel cars flipping with only a helmet between my driver's skull and the ground.

As far as faster speeds let's face it, that's the goal right? The key is being the fastest while weighing safety into the equation. Being fastest only works if you can control the car. If the money pot was bigger in CART I guarantee you the speeds would be bigger as well. When there's money to be had drivers tend to worry less about speed and more about getting the checkered.