Chance of ALMS @ Longbeach?

jhansen · 3 Dec 2003, 16:49 (Ref:802799)

Found this article in the CART forum. I know we have discussed it before, but it would be cool. ALMS could really use an April date and its a great market.

http://presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1...?search=filter

73_Gstock · 3 Dec 2003, 16:53 (Ref:802802)

Won't happen in 2004. 2005 and beyond? Maybe.

If Toyota was involved in ALMS, I'd give it a firm possibilty. But since Toyota pays most of the bills, it may go to that 'other' series as they are at Phoenix the week before (and have more involvment from Toyota

Right now, it (LBGP) is scheduled the week before LeMans test days.

jhansen · 3 Dec 2003, 17:01 (Ref:802810)

If you read the article or check the IRL's schedule you'll see that the IRL is racing in Japan the same weekend that Longbeach is currently scheduled for. The IRL Phoenix race is in March by the way. But I wasn't aware of the Le Mans test days date, forgot about that.

gttouring · 3 Dec 2003, 17:56 (Ref:802853)

the motegi race is easier to switch by a few weeks thn the Long Beach one as the failities are only for racing, ALMS at Long BEach- is that what we'd love, like a LMES round at Monaco-drool-talk about traffic

Fogelhund · 3 Dec 2003, 18:14 (Ref:802871)

Perhaps this year, there is a small chance that ALMS could run at Long Beach. But... I think long term, you would have seen IRL take the event over, regardless of the health of CART. With heavy Toyota dollars, you know it was only a matter of time.

The only chance we have of it being a long-term IMSA event is if Toyota announces a LMP program.... right.

sgw2 · 3 Dec 2003, 18:42 (Ref:802908)

This is the best shot ALMS has. 2004 or never. Scott Atherton should smoozing up to Jim Augst, Les Unger, Jim Michaelian, Roger Penske and Brian Barnhart. I'd be playing up the Toyota SpeedVision World Challenge angle, as well as the Chevrolet desire to be in Southern California market. I'd also bring in the STRANA guys (Brian Till), Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Infineon to help me sell.

If I were Scott Atherton forging an alliance with IRL (there is the Infineon Raceway angle) and wooing Toyota and the LBGP as my top priority in life. This is really make or break time for the ALMS.

If left to entropy the LBGP will wind up Grand-Am in 2004, and IRL plus Grand-Am in 2005 onward.

A better option is to sell ALMS as a viable 2004 headliner with a "Indy Champcar" prize race, talking TRD into getting Penske and Ganssi to drag out their 2002 Toyotas to run against IRL crossovers Rahal, Fernandez, and soon Patrick, Herdez and Haas (also dragging out a 2002 Toyota). This woudl allow a long term ALMS-IRL weekend at the Beach. Exactly the marraige CART refused to give ALMS.

As a bettting man I'll put money on entropy.

billnchristy · 3 Dec 2003, 19:50 (Ref:802962)

I think he was talking about GA not IRL.

Tim Northcutt · 3 Dec 2003, 20:28 (Ref:802999)

On the IMSA Talk forum, someone noted that Mr. Atherton is familiar with the Long Beach promoters and has spoken with them in the past, but that there hasn't been any discussions about running there in April 2004 in the wake of the news on CART both yesterday and today...

A good market whee ALMS currently does not run (Southern California) and an ALMS date in April both sound good on the surface...

My question would be how well is the circuit suited to ALMS type racing???

Long Beach is a good circuit for competition where all of the cars are running at relatively the same speeds or are in the same class...

With four classes of cars an a sizable field, there will be lots of traffic, because I have felt that Long Beach doesn't offer a lot of places to pass....

I like the idea, but with reservations for that one reason alone....

And I do agree that if it would be considered, 2004 would be the time to make the move...If Mr. Atherton feels it is in the best interest of the Series to have this promoter come on board and promote the event....before the IRL gets its road course packages squared away for testing and for the teams to purchase...otherwise, i's going to become an IRL event in 2005....

paul-collins · 3 Dec 2003, 20:39 (Ref:803012)

Well, anything's got to be better than Miami.

My feeling is that LBGP's circuit is no worse than Trois Rivieres.

A new article in the Long Beach paper (see the CART forum for a link) says:
"We are currently assessing what these developments mean to the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach,' said Jim Michaelian, the president and CEO of the Grand Prix Association. "I can assure you that there will be a 30th anniversary of the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach that will take place April 16th through the 18th.'

IRL has to move dates, in other words. Else it's to GA versus ALMS or some smaller series (TA, Atlantics, who?)...

Tim Northcutt · 3 Dec 2003, 20:49 (Ref:803020)

That article mentioned IRL and ALMS as the prime candidates that Long Beach would be pursuing as an alternative...

and I don't think the IRL's road package has been tested or is ready for racing...is it???

Trois-Rivieres wasn't that bad on the traffic side...but Miami was a mess...a repeat of Miami would not do the Series any good at all....

jhansen · 3 Dec 2003, 21:35 (Ref:803072)

Is there another viable option in terms of a racetrack in southern California? The only thing I can think of is the roval at Fontana that Grand Am uses.

Tim Northcutt · 3 Dec 2003, 21:54 (Ref:803089)

Well...

I could get started on the "Closed Airbase" thing....

A great one for a road course in Orange County...the El Toro MCAC field has a plethora of options for creating a circuit...

and these runways ae nearly 10,000 ft. long...plenty of hangars for paddocks...and it just sits there...and is being used for nothing...

drop this baby into your computer and play around with circuits on it...the possibilities are endless!!!

the image is from that www.airfields-freeman.com site that I posted for all of you back about a month ago on the "ALMS Options" thread...

I'd rather have the Long beach promoter run a race here than on a street course...

Tim Northcutt · 3 Dec 2003, 22:00 (Ref:803093)

I like this El Toro air base course the best...a 5.7 mile circuit...

I'll leave this alone after this post....this stuff is contageous!!!

But this place would kick butt!!!

Dauntless · 3 Dec 2003, 22:07 (Ref:803098)

Just one problem, Tim. Some of those straight-aways look to be longer than 150 meters...

jhansen · 3 Dec 2003, 22:14 (Ref:803102)

I had a feeling you'd come up with one of those.

But in a market like that, its about the only other option other than the two I stated above. And if done correctly, I think an airport track is superior to a street course. Lots of space. And depending upon seating and such, the fans get a good view of the action going on. Maybe not on a track of that size, but you get the picture.

BTW, how do I modify that to create a track?

Tim Northcutt · 4 Dec 2003, 00:00 (Ref:803196)

I just use the Paint box on my windows system...

To Dauntless:

Based on the runway lengths I guestimated that most of the straights would be about 3,000 ft. or a little under 5/8 of a mile, so they would just fall under the FIA max length of 1 km. wouldn't they?

The only one that looks too long is on the upper left side of the image that runs at an angle from the center left up toward the top...

If not....those runways are wide enough that you could break them up with a couple of bends that had a few hundred feet of straight between them so that those sections would still be pretty fast...

Realistically, you could probably use about 2/3 of what I did and use the remaining section of unused airfield to place additional grandstands as well as for parking....

But there are four big concrete tarmacs (all with hangars) there to give you lots of choices for a paddock....

This place will let your imagination really take over...

It is not far from Santa Barbara and just minutes of of the big freeway/interstate system down there...according to others who are somewhat familiar with that area....

Tim Northcutt · 4 Dec 2003, 18:50 (Ref:803988)

This version of El Toro is one of my more realistic ones....

For whatever it is worth....It's closer to about 2.75 miles, and the straights on this one would be fine for length

gttouring · 4 Dec 2003, 19:02 (Ref:803994)

tim i should take your markers away, this is a habit of yours...
better than all this, why not refurbish thunderhill, or buttonwillow? traffic in and out should be better, and it is a hour or so from LA away from the LA highway mess ( you said there are nice road to el toro and what have you, but really they are crawling parking lots)
or better, get ALMS with TA at VIR, and Indianapolis Raceway Park (i love it)
and what about Firehawk? before they go on inventing cricuits, why not build and beautify what we do have?

Tim Northcutt · 4 Dec 2003, 19:30 (Ref:804016)

Good points, gttouring.....

Are Thunderhill or Buttonwillow capable of handling ALMS racing???

I asked about Willow Springs, but have been told (via a reply from the ALMS) that it has some good qualities, but the runoffs on teh circuit and certain other track charactersitics were not well-suited to ALMS

and the surrounding amenities that would be needed to serve a typical ALMS crowd (nearby hotels, restaurants, etc.) were not as prevalent as would be needed....

I couldn't resist the "El Toro" post when jhansen asked...but let's be realistic:

1. The fact that Long beach has a long-stablished record in the exact spot where they race every year says that the circuit works and that the fans enjoy the entire experience that the event offers....

2. The circuit also is in a beautiful setting on the water, with tons of amenities for those who come to the race

3. A proven presenter in Long Beach who has enjoyed enormous success right wehere he is at, and has been successful for 30 years, is about as likely to move that race to a closed air base in Orange County as I am about as likely to race at, and win the Indy 500....

BTW....I use Crayola crayons...and you'll get them away from me when you pry my cold, dead fingers from them!!!!

pmccormick · 4 Dec 2003, 19:54 (Ref:804025)

Come on, Tim. I was just about to break out Photoshop and start scribbling all over El Toro field again.

So what if LB is already established. It would be a like watching a 3hr traffic jam for an ALMS race.

I know we all want another race, but do we want this race?

Hmmmm, after second thought, I guess a LB race is better than no race.

Tim Northcutt · 4 Dec 2003, 20:01 (Ref:804035)

I think it'll be a traffic jam, too....

Cars that are relatively the same speeds have trouble passing at LB...

Throwing 3 dozen cars that run in four distinct classes that race at differet paces on a circuit that provides fairly limited passing opportunities sounds problematic to me...

Maybe on "Miami -- The Sequel", but it doesn't sound like the best racing action....

go ahead, pmccormick....draw away!!!!!

Post it here, or if nothing else, post it in that "My Tracks" thread over in the armchair enthusiasts forum....

I'd love to see what you come up with....El Toro has almost as much pavement as the Disneyland Parking Lot to work with....the options are many....

billnchristy · 4 Dec 2003, 21:02 (Ref:804089)

You do have to look at one thing, at least it is already popular. You are guaranteed a good crowd. Yeah the racing might suck, but it cant be worse than miami.

I would rather see Mexico added if the CART demise happens.

Tim Northcutt · 4 Dec 2003, 21:13 (Ref:804096)

The promoters at Long Beach have a great track record (no pun intended) for the vent that they have staged all of these years...

If Southern California makes sense to the ALMS as part of its business plan, they said in their Atlanta news conference that they were looking for established promoters they are familiar with to run the events they would add in upcoming years....

I'm sure that the Long Beach promoters fit that set of criteria...

The other questions are ones we have raised....and would the ALMS assessment of the circuit's suitability for their series be a positive one??

We wouldn't know until it happens....

I wouldn't bet against this one if CART and the OWRS situation ends up becoming a litigation donnybrook with all kinds of affected outside parties going to court for whatever reasons...

But I'm not Mr. Atherton....good thing, because I'm certain that he is a lot smarter than I am...I'm sure he'll make the right choice for the Series one way or another....

I'd love to see them have a race there to see how it would work...

gttouring · 4 Dec 2003, 23:46 (Ref:804252)

when they do build the LB circuit they could make it wider, as evrytime i've been there it is clear that the barriers are placed with plenty of room to the actual kerbs on the street, it shouldn't be difficult at all the modify and allow for more passing and movement- what the 6 hr. of long Beach?

Tim Northcutt · 5 Dec 2003, 02:46 (Ref:804330)

I hope they would do so....

There are many elements of the Long Beach circuit that I do like in the layout....and it has a solid fan base for that venue and event...

Let's hope that it might come about for the ALMS...If they feel it works into their plans...because the promoters have doe a great job with it for many years..

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