Will Sportscar Racing Benefit from the high cost of F1?

[jhansen]

I'm curious what all of you think about this concept. It is no secret that the cost of Formula 1 is incredibly high. A number of people including myself wonder how long this rate of spending can continue. It is mind boggeling to me that the return on investment is worth it to the manufacturers involved (i.e. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, etc). I suppose it is, or they wouldn't do it. This is undoubtedly linked to TV exposure.

My primary question is this: at some point will the manufacturers walk away from F1 and will sportscar racing as a whole benefit from this?

[FIRE]

I think they can benefit from smaller manufacturers (i.e. Nissan, Mazda, Volvo) who cannot afford a F1 project.

F1 is the #1 autosport so I think big manufacturers will stay in F1.

[JAG]

Sportscars won't benefit directly from manufactuers leaving F1, they will however benefit from manufactuers reducing there F1 budgets and having a wider range of race programmes.

In the late 1990s manufactuers but all there resources into F1 and are now realising it does not guarantee succes, and they need to race in other series, along with F1.

[dretceterini]

Without the kind of effort spent on marketing and promotion that F1, NASCAR and other sports spends, sportscar racing will never be as popular.

[krt917]

Originally posted by JAG
Sportscars won't benefit directly from manufactuers leaving F1, they will however benefit from manufactuers reducing there F1 budgets and having a wider range of race programmes.

This is what I hope for. It's one of the reasons I really feel it is about time costs were cut in F1.

Agree with dretceterini that decent exposure for other formulas would probably help too.

[skycafe]

My word,what does being an associate sponsor on a lower level F1 car cost? You could probably buy an Audi and run entire American or European series, plus Le Mans.

The cost of admissions to F1 races just astonishes me. They will soon price themselves out of almost any market.

I hope it does flow to sports cars, and we get a strong global interest going.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by FIRE
I think they can benefit from smaller manufacturers (i.e. Nissan, Mazda, Volvo) who cannot afford a F1 project.

Did you mean Renault, Ford & Ford?

[Mal]

I think it is already happening to a point with Ford (ie Aston Martin) & Ferrari (ie Maserati) already announcing works backed efforts. But it apears to be in addition to F1 and using a different brand. The difference is the coming coordinated rules, and if this coordination continues to give manufacturers the global marketing window then more will no doubt get involved.
It is no coincidence that the FIA GT has taken the series to China and Middle East opening up those huge markets at the same time as more manufacturers get involved.

[FIRE]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Did you mean Renault, Ford & Ford?

Nissan, Mazda and Volvo have without help from Renault, Ford & Ford not the money to do a F1 project.

[independent]

Although this is not perfectly on topic, I think it could have implications for the future of F1 in Europe and the fans reaction to this philosophy for the future. Hopefully creating an opportunity for Sportscar racing to bring the fans in.

here is the link: http://www.autoweek.com/motorsportsnews/index.mv


"Ecclestone pledges Asian commitment, wants VW in F1


Formula One group principal Bernie Ecclestone has again emphasized his determination to increase the presence of Formula One in Asia and North America, at the expense of “traditional fixtures in Europe.”
“We’ll have to cancel some of the European races sooner or later,” he said. “Our sponsors want us in growing markets, and Europe isn’t a growing market. As I see it, Europe will be part of the third world in 10 years, while Asia and America will be dominating the world. We must be established there.”

Ecclestone also said he believed it was time the Volkswagen Group, the German automobile manufacturer, committed itself to an F1 program. “Volkswagen is the market leader in China,” he said. “The growing popularity of F1 in China shouldn’t be an argument for Volkswagen not to get involved.”

[Fogelhund]

"Ecclestone pledges Asian commitment, wants VW in F1

Pompous idiot isn't he? I want Porsche in Sportscars.. does that make it so?

FIRE - my post was just to demonstrate how few corporate groups there are left in the auto world.

[Tim Northcutt]

What amazes me is why someone like Minardi spent $53 million last season to sit on the back of the grid in every race????

They could race at least 10 sportscars (prototypes) on Very Healthy...actually Very Extravagant.... budgets and still have money left over!!!!!

The difference is that they would be competitive in those 10 prototypes....extremely competitive with a $5 million budget per car

Instead, they are flushing it away with nothing to show for it....

[pirenzo]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
What amazes me is why someone like Minardi spent $53 million last season to sit on the back of the grid in every race????

They could race at least 10 sportscars (prototypes) on Very Healthy...actually Very Extravagant.... budgets and still have money left over!!!!!

The difference is that they would be competitive in those 10 prototypes....extremely competitive with a $5 million budget per car

Instead, they are flushing it away with nothing to show for it....

Someone has to be at the back...

[Tim Northcutt]

I agree, Pirenzo...

But I could find much cheaper ways to run at the back than to blow $53 million doing it...

That's insane....

[jhansen]

I tend to agree with you Tim. I'd rather be competitive. Same thing with McNish, why not return to sportscars than buy a ride at Jordan?

I do feel there is one key point here. Could Paul Stoddart raise $53 million to spend in sportscars? I don't know the breakdown of that money, some comes from European Aviation, which is his I believe. But not all of it is his. When it comes to attracting sponsors to sportscar racing, its a bit tougher. Hopefully with the future success of LMES and closer ties between the ACO and FIA GT we will see this situation improve.

[billnchristy]

Dude, Bernie has already said that if a team drops out that F1 will not go under 20 cars, he will make other teams run 3 or more cars to compensate...now that is pompous...Minardi probably gets paid double what they spend just to stay in and be the joke, otherwise Toyota or Jag would have to be and you cant make fun of those guys...their feelings will get hurt.

[Tim Northcutt]

Even if Mr. Stoddard would raise only one-tenth of that $53 million, as we have all seen and read, you could run on heck of a sportscar effort on $5 million....that's a little more than Champion spends to run their Audi....

and from my little excersize on what you "could" do it for, $5 million is a ton of money....

Spending that kind of cash in sportscars would make you extremely competitive....

[jhansen]

I totally agree with you, wasn't disputing that at all.

[Cadete]

Ecclestone needs Minardi, like billnchristy said, in today's manufacturer's F1 you need a team that will be last because the day one of the manufactures is last in the championship they will leave the competition...

That's why I believe more in privateers than in manufacturers, no "2 to 5 year programs", no "we race just to sell cars", privateer teams race because they exist to race.
Of course factories are needed to build cars to be sold to the privateers teams, but a factory team can be too dominat even if only because of a bigger budget...

[paulzinho]

Sportscars needs a proper World Championship again. The way its run at the moment means there are too many low profile or localised championships. The ALMS is alright if you're in America but thats about as far as it goes.

What I think is needed is a true world championship racing on some of those classic circuits with some proper endurance races. I'm hoping that the new 1000km endurance series will help signal the start of a new era for sportscars.

Also would be nice to have Porsche back in prototypes... preferably with a roof.

[Liz]

Well in one way F1's high prices are benefitting sports cars; I know a number of people who have discovered they can attend five sports car races and get a lot more for the money at each one, for the price of one F1 race where we were trapped in a grandstand with nothing to do and unable to meet any drivers.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
What amazes me is why someone like Minardi spent $53 million last season to sit on the back of the grid in every race????

Tim, what about passion ? We're not surprised here to see some privateers put most of their money in Sportscars (see WR, Didier Bonnet, Norbert SAnots, to mention only french ones) ; they could, with their commitement, be successful in a more modest formula I think. But they love Sportscars.

If I don't understand Minardi's passion for F1, I can imagine they have this passion... even beeing always the "loser"... (I just asked to myself if it was not intentionnal from F1 board to have a real weak team, to insure there's always someone behind who's not one of the top teams, but it's another story).

[Javi]

The problem is that F1 races are broadcasted on TV to ALL the world, and there are thousands of pictures being taken, so for a sponsor, even with Minardi, gets much more coverage and publicity being the last in F1 than the first in sportscars. Apart from Le Mans, sadly the rest of the sportscar races are limited in TV and press coverage. I want to add that there´s high merit in Minardi, they are competing against worldwide manufacturer´s with "unlimited" resources and their cars are just few tenth´s slower than, for example, Jaguar...

[Liz]

Minardi have the 2nd largest world wide fan base, second only to Ferrari. People love minnows.

[FIRE]

If Minardi moves to sportcars they don't $53 million sponsor money.