The reunification. How would you do it?

Scrutineer78 · 22 Jan 2004, 04:55 (Ref:846404)

You are Tony George, that's scary. Design the new IndyCar series, for the reunification. Tracks, chassis, engines, teams, drivers.

I think it's imperative to maintain IndyCars on ovals, as well as major road courses and street courses. Don't just give a race to Denver because they can put a 1.5 mile circuit together, same goes for Miami.

Ideal schedule: Ovals are Homestead, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Michigan, California, and Texas. Road Courses are Portland, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Road America, Mexico (Autodrome Hermanos Rodriguez). Street courses are: Toronto, Vancouver, Long Beach, and Cleveland.

I'd like to stay in North America but I know Honda will demand Motegi get a race. So if you're going to Motegi, you might as well go to Surfers Paradise as well.

That's 15 races with the two possible additions. Maybe double up on California or Michigan or add Road America, if they could get it up to grade for IndyCars

Chassis: Dallara and G-Force aren't the prettiest to look at these days but they stuck with the IRL so you can't get rid of them. I'd add Lola and maybe even Penske, if he wants to start building chassis. Also the chassis should incorporate a more sleeker design than the current IRL chassis.

Engines: Chevy, Toyota, and Honda are fine with me. I'd try to tempt Ford to come in but I don't know if they'd want the hassle of supporting a new motor.

Teams: Well most of the CART teams are in the IRL now, so I can't see any additions there. My only change would be for the IRL to actually start making a true effort to get midget and sprint car drivers into Indy, at the least, and hopefully full time rides. Ford showed you could take an oval racer and teach him to be competitive on road courses but it's the state of Indy Car racing that drove Kasey Kahne to NASCAR.

Oh yeah, one more thing. A mandatory condition for Rahal to meet before his entry is allowed: Danica has to drive

That's my winded take.

gttouring · 22 Jan 2004, 07:30 (Ref:846444)

well at current tech- i would honor the Ford Cosworth deal and have them (CHevy, honda, toyota) set up the engine to be on par with the Cossie's for power. and equal the weight of the cars and let them run a season with the 2 types Champcars & Indycars. We would need to run a predominantly IRL schedule, however Longbeach, road America and the Canadian Triumverate of races in the schedule for sure, Cleveland ...definately Australia and mexico city. and let grids be 30+ cars if need be. this interim season would really show the best package and after Champcars whoop the IRL rides, toyota, honda and Chevy will want to go turbo and the new era i would usher in is the 3litre turbo V8's at 12K rev's and A commmon ignition to keep Traction control away, and any type of stability control.
then the schedule would have to drop "chicagoland (in joliet no less)" and kansas-

climb · 22 Jan 2004, 07:44 (Ref:846452)

I would accept a larger number of road venues, witout diminishing teh number of ovals.
In oreder to let small teams' survival, I would create three parallel championsips:
1) All oval
2) Road/street
3) Overall
The first two should have a sufficient number of venues (at least 9-10) to put a significant presence for drivers, sponsors and fans, but with an affordable cost level.
teams/drivers going for the overall can't contend the "specialised" titles, or (if you prefer) their performances are evalued half the points in the specific standings.
Teams who choose, say, the all-oval title, of course can participate to some road courses if sponsors demand it, but up to a maximum number of two or three.
This way:
1)Small teams save money, without losing the chance to take part to the most important venues regardless the kind of circuit.
2) Bigger teams consent their drivers to get an exciting experience, and to set up a profile that allow them to be interesting for a possible step to F1
3) fans of any kind of circuit can watch the races thay care of with the best competition.

Scrutineer78 · 22 Jan 2004, 07:46 (Ref:846456)

Fair enough.

I think NA motors should be preserved to keep costs down, though. I definately agree with the common ignition for traction control prevention.

I'm not a big fan of Montreal, since it doesn't lend itsself to passing very well. Also, I sacrificed Monterrey simply because it's just another one of those CART races "Just to tap that market". One series can tap that market on the real course in Mexico City.

At least someone replied

Climb:

I'm all for adding new races but I wanted to start out easy and not take on the NASCAR juggernaut every weekend

I like the idea of the oval/road/overall championship but somehow I don't think sponsors would find that very appealing but that might encourage them to sponsor a team for the whole championship.

Edited after I read Climb's post.

climb · 22 Jan 2004, 08:52 (Ref:846507)

I think that some sponsor could like a partial/specific participation if it implies a lower budget to invest.

macdaddy · 22 Jan 2004, 09:59 (Ref:846572)

If I were "TG for a day", myself and 50 or 60 other 10T's members would wake up with such massive hangovers, vaguely remembering seeing the Stones the night before, glad that our first-class flights home aren't for another week.

The bank account would be dry, and the sisters would be fuming.

Instead, I'll pretend that I'm "Macdaddy for a day", having just won the largest lottery ever imagined.

I'd buy CART, IRL, ISC and IMS.
(Actually, I'd buy a case of beer first).

And then I'd hire somebody to carve a stone for me. On it would read the words "turbo" and "low downforce".

And then I'd set to work on a schedule.

Indianapolis, Michigan and Fontana. Milwaukee, Motegi and Germany. The first three would reinstate the Triple Crown.

Road America, the fullcourse Brands, Montreal, Laguna Seca and Mexico City for a few roads. (Of course, one always dreams of Spa).

Need some streets. Long Beach, Las Vegas, St. Petersburg, Toronto, Vancouver, Cleveland and Surfers.

So that's six ovals, five roads and seven streets.
An eighteen-race schedule for a newbie billionaire ain't bad!

Scrutineer78 also asks about teams and drivers. That's easy. Show up with a car that passes spec and a capable pilot, and take your place in the qualifying line. Just remember that only the top 28 make the cut. (With one exception of 33).

macdaddy · 22 Jan 2004, 10:01 (Ref:846576)

I just realized that only 10 of my 18 races are in America.

**GTRMagic** · 22 Jan 2004, 10:14 (Ref:846586)

So why cant the billionaire Macdaddy run a race in every state of the union that is the US of A?

There are 52 weekends a year, could have Easter and Christmas off

gttouring · 22 Jan 2004, 16:52 (Ref:847089)

their is a fight over at "mikey's full of hot air" thread
about this too..

gttouring · 22 Jan 2004, 16:54 (Ref:847093)

the NA motors aren't any cheeaper than the Turbo Fordds this year, and i would argue that the Cosworths are and can outperform those NA lumps in IRL

kingfloopy · 22 Jan 2004, 17:20 (Ref:847137)

I would leave the IRL motor and chassis packages alone initially for cost consideration. I would probally add a varation of the Cosworth tuned to have similar power to the IRL spec motors and if the CART chassis can be adapted to IRL specs I would include it intially. Eventually there would be a new generation of cars and engines, but to reduce start up costs what exists should be used. I would start two divisions, one on ovals and one on road and street courses with approx. 10-12 races in each division. The races would be scheduled on different dates so drivers can compete in both divisions. This would allow drivers to either choose a specialty or run on all the tracks. There would be seperate champions for each division and an overall champion for the series.

J.D.

sgw2 · 22 Jan 2004, 18:05 (Ref:847214)

Honestly I'd do it this way if I were IRL

1) buy the CART assets. Freeing any promoters who wish to drop as a good will gesture. Drop all the CART promoted races (St.Petersburg, Las Vegas, Portland, Cleveland).

2) run a much shortened farewell tour for Champcar. Probably only 10 races (3 Canada, Australia, 2 Mexico, Long Beach, Milwaukee, and should any of the promoters still want Laguna Seca or Road America or maybe even Denver).

3) Use the existing CART equipment. To the ten relatively firm entries, put some pressure on IRL regulars like Panther, Penske, Cheever, and Ganassi to run one car each with some IMS support to help meet the contract requirements.

Then for 2005:

4)One series IRL equipment.

5)Let Vancouver contract expire, ditto Milwaukee (actually move IRL to the week after Indy again). Drop Australia, Denver, and (another goodwill gesture) Monterrey Mexico.

6) Keep Mexico City, Long Beach, Toronto, and maybe Montreal.

7) Add two real road courses; probably Infineon Raceway, although Laguna Seca is a possible instead, and Mid-Ohio although Road Atlanta or Road America could also be considered.

8) Keep the existing IRL schedule, although Homestead and Pikes Peak are pretty weak. Try to fix on 22 race schedule. Sign tracks to long term contracts. Build tradional dates and stability.

GP Racer · 22 Jan 2004, 18:59 (Ref:847277)

While we're talking about schedules, I'd like to see the new series make there way into the Mid-Atlantic states and the North East.

Besides Nazareth in Pa, and Richmond Va, which are ovals, this area has been totally underserved by CART for years. Its a huge new market that is ready for some big-time races. NASCAR has been working hard to get into NY, simply because of the potential. F1 is also exploring it. But it would be nice to see a road or street course somewhere in these two areas for this new series.

Also, this new series needs to get American drivers involved. To many of our best drivers, those from the dirt tracks especially, have been allowed to slip through the fingers of both open wheel series to go on to NASCAR. Thats unacceptable.

And above all, steal some of those NASCAR marketing geniuses! They know how to do it, they can make this thing big! They can bring back the glory days!!!!!

Rob Buhl · 22 Jan 2004, 21:17 (Ref:847438)

I do miss road racing. Portland and Mid-Ohio are wonderful precision tracks.

Down F0rce · 22 Jan 2004, 22:02 (Ref:847495)

A bit off topic, but if you don't mind me asking...are you the Robbie Buhl?

Ac. · 22 Jan 2004, 22:23 (Ref:847518)

Funny how over here in the IRL forums the discussions regarding unification are pretty even, while over on the Champ Car side the pro IRL's call for the downfall of all things CART.

Those are some great schedules proposed, and keeping CART and IRL engines and chassis' is a great goal. Let's hope we really see it someday!

manwell · 22 Jan 2004, 23:20 (Ref:847585)

Quote:

Originally posted by sgw2
Honestly I'd do it this way if I were IRL

5)Let Vancouver contract expire, ditto Milwaukee (actually move IRL to the week after Indy again). Drop Australia, Denver, and (another goodwill gesture) Monterrey Mexico.

Are you serious? Drop Australia?

The drivers love coming down here - so it keeps the drivers and teams happy.

It has one of the biggest crowds of the year - so the promoters are happy.

Its a sensational venue for marketing purposes - so the sponsors are happy

So what are you basing your decision of dropping the race on?

Down F0rce · 22 Jan 2004, 23:25 (Ref:847594)

Welcome to the forums, manwell

Got to agree with you there, Surfers is like US open-wheel racing's Monte Carlo. Would be a shame to see it go.

Scrutineer78 · 22 Jan 2004, 23:30 (Ref:847600)

All great ideas and it's good to see there are some CART and IRL fans that can think clearly without blowing a top against the other. At least for this thread

Turbos, NA, Dallaras, Lolas, PT, Sam Hornish, Castroneves, Indy, Milwaukee, Long Beach, Road America. All of this and more is part of Indy Car racing lore. It needs to be under one series, CART, OWRS, IRL, ABC, it doesn't matter. The only important thing is: One.

I don't want to step on any toes but jusding from Rob's past posts, he is indeed THE Robbie Buhl.

Down F0rce · 22 Jan 2004, 23:52 (Ref:847629)

it does indeed

Hi Robbie, thanks for joining us

Snrub · 23 Jan 2004, 00:33 (Ref:847679)

Quote:

Originally posted by Scrutineer78
Engines: Chevy, Toyota, and Honda are fine with me. I'd try to tempt Ford to come in but I don't know if they'd want the hassle of supporting a new motor.

Not to be too personal on this one, but what the heck are you talking about? Ford developed the most potent IRL engine of 2003. I think they could handle producing one of the same spec even for 2004! I have to admit I was suprised by their performance given the fact that they don't have a particularly good high-level racing track record. (minus Nascar)

Scrutineer78 · 23 Jan 2004, 04:25 (Ref:847826)

As far as dropping Australia from my fantasy schedule, at least, was cost control and basically trying to keep this a North American series, as it was originally to be. The cost to transport the equipment and travel expenses would hurt the "privateer" teams we would need to fill the field. Also, are we so sure the crowd is that great for the champ cars? From what I hear the stands are full for the V8 races and then emptied when the CART cars hit the track.

True Snrub but manufacturing and "supporting" are two different things in my view. Are they going to want to send the technicians out with the factory teams and spend the money to keep developing that motor, is what I was getting at.

dirtfan · 23 Jan 2004, 05:59 (Ref:847856)

The fact that Ford purchased Cosworth way back when, in order to produce the cammer engines, doesn't mean there's any connection to the NASCAR pushrod stuff.
BTW, spinning a pushrod engine to 8000-9000 RPM for 500 miles is IMPRESSIVE!

sgw2 · 23 Jan 2004, 07:45 (Ref:847881)

Manwell,

Yes I'm serious. It is actually a drag to even have Mexican and Canadian races, because so many sponsors consider them outside their marketing and sales territories (those belong to other marketing/sales divisions who rarely help with the funding - prime example is Toyota of Canada refusing to help Toyota USA with CART funding ever). But the reality is Canada and Mexico will add as many as five cars to the IRL grid. Like Motegi - the price for Honda support - it has an effect on the entry list.

This stand is unpopular with international folks, but it is the correct business call. Only add races outside the US if they add something to the series (e.g., Motegi adds Honda and perhaps 2 extra cars to all IRL races). One Mexican and one canadian race could each add a couple of cars. Europe and Australia add zero. Since IMS has plenty of money, unlike CART, the proposal to pay the sanctioning body cash and thus trump the business case, holds no water. There is no partnership. Deals like Surfers (which as these go was a rare success) are what destroyed CART.

BootsOntheSide · 24 Jan 2004, 16:14 (Ref:849383)

For 2005, the idea of running 2 seperate schedules of 10-12 races, one of ovals the other of road courses, and have the races on different dates, using their respective existing chassis, and allow teams to enter either or both. Maybe make the 500 count for both championships.

This would be ncie for the smaller teams who already ahve their equipment but can't afford too many races,a dn would allow the big teams and drivers to return to racing in both, and challenge for 2 seperate championships at once.