Poor Decision?

[nippy]

At our Kart race on sunday i was sent to the back of the grid for " Weaving" Or " Warming Up The Tyres" what is the problem it works and gives you confidence into turn 1 what is the rule lads.

[Alan Green]

Need to clarify that with the Clerk of the Course for the meeting I would suggest. Judging what is excessive weaving is at their discresion I would guess.
(Not a kart marshal, so don't know the exact rules I'm afraid)

Al.

[flagwaver]

Worried that you have to ask us the rules, look in the Blue Book.

[nippy]

The blue book doesn't state there is a rule against weaving on formation laps. The only thing said in the drivers briefing was weaving does not warm up your tyres so dont waste your rubber.

[Alan Green]

So from what you've said weaving doesn't warm your tyres, but does give you confidence going into the first corner? Sounds like there's no justification for weaving other than psycological (sp?) to make you feel more 'racey'.

Perhaps instead of saying 'so don't waste your rubber' to you in the briefing, it should have been 'so don't do it', which it seems was what was meant.

Al.

[Woolley]

In a phrase, remember Gary Ayles and Frank Sytner at Brands BTCC?

[sss]

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld...eb00/weave.htm

hopefully this link worked, an article about weaving

[sf2001]

weaving i beleive isnt allowed because you are supposed to be in your grid position from the off at the dummy grid and should maintain that position and stay in line close behind the kart in front. if you are the leaders, take the pack around to the start at a slow pace until the green is given (if the starter is happy that the field is evenly spaced out and the leaders dont get a jump on the rest)

so all in all, weaving is frowned upon heavily because of safety issues, especially on kart tracks, were the width is of the track is very narrow and accidents can (and will) happen..

i hope that clears it up a little

[djb]

wooley, they came together I presume?

and SSS, good article. The little bike racing I did always involved some weaving, it just seemed to make sense that some abrasion would do "something"--if this article was done properly, I guess the only good thing that came out of it was some arm muscle stretching.

and common sense makes me see how in a rolling start/narrow kart track situation, this would be frowned upon, and hence this fellows gripe.

[Mark Mitchell]

There's weaving and there's excessive weaving!
In cars, excessive usually means you are using more than half the width of the track to "Weave"

[Flagman]

The article was very interesting. It basically confirms what I was told by a tyre technician many years ago.

His comments, when asked about FF1600 drivers weaving on the warm up lap was - It just wears out the tyres quicker and does no good - but don't tell the drivers as we sell more tyres that way.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Flagman
The article was very interesting. It basically confirms what I was told by a tyre technician many years ago.

Bear in mind that it refers to bike tyres; the results could be different for cars. Only a narrow strip of a bike tyre is in contact with the track surface at any given time, whereas for a car tyre there is (more or less) contact across the full width of the tread.

[Paul Millard]

djb
Yes they came together on the cooper straight I believe. Sytner I think stalled on the green flag lap and was trying to regain his place when Gary Ayles weaved across the track. Hefty damage to both cars.
paul.

[graeme]

Not sure about kart racing, but there's something in the Blue Book or final regs for car racing which states that excessive weaving (using more than 50% of the track) is not allowed

[petestenning]

With regards to the Sytner/Ayles incident i was on post 8 that day, it was Ayles who had stalled on the grid and was making his way through the
grid, why?. Sytner was waving across al of the track,again why?. Both met on the same piece of track, Lots of confusion ensued. If memory serves me right no action was taken.

[RMR]

on the track it is 50%. it does nothing weaving to warm the tyres on the track, kart is probably the same. theres not enough load to heat the rubber. i think people do this to get there mind set, all in the 'ead. better off warming up the brakes for the first corner. good article about it, makes an intersting read.

[Mark Mitchell]

Yes but FORMULA ONE drivers all weave don't they, so it looks cool if the rest do it!!

[nippy]

No thats not it at all to be realistic. We don't weave becaus FORMULA 1 DRIVERS do it, as you wrongly say its because i we are under the impression that friction=warmth=grip and therfore good for first corner but you've probly never raced in your life av you. I f you feel confident you'l have grip in the first corner. I can't believe i can't ask a genuine question on a marshals forum without having someone give you a sarcy comment.

Get your Facts right fella.

[Alan Green]

So why do you feel that weaving gives you confidence, if it doesn't do the tyres any good?

Like you say, "Get your facts right" - go and ask the clerk of the course for his reasoning at the time you were penalised.

BTW Good attitude to have as a kart driver, you'll go far in racing when you grow up.

[nippy]

Quote: "BTW Good attitude to have as a kart driver, you'll go far in racing when you grow up"

I agree that was a childish thing to say and i'm sorry. It was just that i was angerd at the fact i didn't realy get the response i was looking for. I wasn't sure on the rules and i don't like the way people think that us kart drivers are trying to be mimick F1 drivers and now looking at the post from Observer i realise it wasn't aimed at me directly and i apologise. But what i mean is our first corner is one of them dodgy corners which doesn't have a braking point as such and in the middle of a 26 kart field i will try anything that may help so i can attack on the first lap and get up to the leaders before they go.

And once again i am sorry for what i said and it may be hard to believe but i don't have that attitude in general. Im a nice lad

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by nippy
Quote: I agree that was a childish thing to say and i'm sorry. It was just that i was angerd at the fact i didn't realy get the response i was looking for.

I was taught many years ago to never ask a question if I was not prepared to accept the wrong answer!! It's called part of "growing-up".

The true skill lies in actually knowing exactly what you would like answered, a skill I am still trying to master.

[sss]

and back to weaving.......

[Woolley]

Ok, the jist of a conversation I had with a tyre fitter once. I don't remember the company.

Me "What does weaving do for the tyres?"
Fitter "For the softest, like F1 down to F3 it brings them into the operating range for temperature"
M "And on everything else?"
F "It wears them out quicker"
M "But everyone does it, if it doesn't help, why not tell them?"
F "We sell more tyres this way..."

So now you know.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by sss
and back to weaving.......

is a good point......,

do you drivers "weave" to gain heat in your tyres or your psychie??

I ask because i see Hillclimb drivers "warm" their tyres even on a wet run and have often wondered what the point is. Am I missing some technical issue or are drivers just "building-themselves-up"?? No offense, just curious.

[jase]

As for the full reason for your penalty, if you have any question of a judgement ask the CoC, they're not going to bite your head off for a decently worded question. To be a CoC you have had to be marshalling for a while so you have experience. Advice properly sought can be of benefit, but don't go ahead with all cylinders firing, you'll just be told to leave the office.