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17 Jun 2004, 11:23 (Ref:1006741)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
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Diesel thought's
Right , so we have seen our first LMP diesel car , the Taurus Motorsport's Lola B2k/10B . Im wondering what you think about it ?
I was completely disapointed with the sound of it and I also thought that a rule laid down by the ACO was that there should be "no visible emision's" !?  There was certainly one dirty big black puff of soot out of the back of that beast exiting the Dunlop bridge and Tetre Rouge !!! I really wouldn't mind if they never raced it again cuz I personally don't want to listen to a nice gearbox sound all night !!! I appreciate the need to try new thing's and fuel formula's , but it sound's like it should belong on a daytona prototype  There's a good idea for DP's ..... go the diesel route and we can really hate them !!! 
Last edited by The Badger; 17 Jun 2004 at 11:23. |
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17 Jun 2004, 11:31 (Ref:1006755)
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#2 | |
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
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All credit to the team for trying to develop this.
They're not doing it on a huge budget either, so well done. |
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17 Jun 2004, 11:35 (Ref:1006759)
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#3 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,831
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Get ready to see more of them. Diesels seem to have a potential advantage. The Taurus-Cat did something like 17 laps between piut stops. Compare that to 12 for Audi during the heat of the day and 13 at night. I predict that the upcoming Audi R10 will be diesel powered.
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17 Jun 2004, 11:43 (Ref:1006769)
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 440
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This is the team's first debut with the diesel block. I just wish you guys would give them a chance to prove themselves. That was nothing wrong with the engine itself, it's the gearbox that plagued the premature retirement.
As a race fan, it's always good to see new ideas (i.e. Nasamax) being put forward. Not to mention the team does not have a huge budget and backing like the big teams. Diesel does indeed have a potential to be competitive in the future. I didn't see why you should care so much about visible pollution by diesel fumes. Every race cars smoke somehow under harsh acceleration. |
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__________________
L'ENDURANCE, C'EST LE MANS!
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17 Jun 2004, 11:53 (Ref:1006788)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,536
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just what was with the top speed? i know the diesel unit only revs to 5500 max so top speed can be limited, however, are 7 speed gearboxes allowed? the need for a taller final gear is evident perhaps they could adjust it to go much quicker, it isn't as they don't have torque to spare anyway
DIESEL POWER! |
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SuperTrucks rule- end of story. Listen to my ramblings! Follow my twitter @davidAET I am shameless ...
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17 Jun 2004, 11:53 (Ref:1006789)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,247
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Diesal car to win Le Mans overall within next 3/4 years. They have potential longevity and economy - all that's missing is the raw speed, which will come with manufacturer backing... IMHO, watch this space.
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__________________
You're either at Le Mans, or waiting for Le Mans. ('86, '87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '94, '95, '97, '98, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, '24)
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17 Jun 2004, 11:54 (Ref:1006793)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,247
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It did leave smallish clouds of diesal smoke in the pits as well (i was almost just above their pits and it was easily noticeable).
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__________________
You're either at Le Mans, or waiting for Le Mans. ('86, '87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '94, '95, '97, '98, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, '24)
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17 Jun 2004, 12:02 (Ref:1006799)
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#8 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
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The current spec engine only has just over 500BHP, as they are looking for reliability at this stage in the engines development.
Once Cat/Taurus and Audi etc. get the diesals developed fully they will be the best engines to use at LM. |
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17 Jun 2004, 13:19 (Ref:1006915)
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#9 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
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Quote:
 or is this another example of the ACO not noticeing their own rules ?
Last edited by The Badger; 17 Jun 2004 at 13:22. |
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17 Jun 2004, 15:32 (Ref:1007079)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 785
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That Taurus Lola weighed over 1050kg at scutennering!! The other Judd Lola was close to 900... That's a problem to solve before thinking about winning. The Lola wasn't meant to carry intercoolers, and a 300+kg engine package doesn't make sense at the back of a 2000 chassis.
R9 for the FSI-turbo Audi LMP1 and R10 for the diesel one???
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17 Jun 2004, 17:30 (Ref:1007169)
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#11 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 386
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I too was disappointed by the outcome of this year's diesel effort at Le Mans. But don't confuse that with disappointment that they tried. I am STOKED about racing a diesel. In fact, my team and I are finalizing our plans to enter a diesel in the 25 Hours of Thunderhill here in Northern California. Our first choise is a sports racer, but the thought of 25 hours in December's typically cold and rainy weather has put off my co-drivers, so we are evaluating whether we will try to convert the car to a GTP-style.
Our fall-back is to run a VW Golf GTD... 
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Stan Clayton Dauntless Racing
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17 Jun 2004, 19:40 (Ref:1007311)
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#12 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,164
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What is the basic advantage of the diesel ? Consumption ? What is the main idea of Taurus racing for using a diesel ?
In any case the car will need more preparation for the next time. |
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BoP = egalitarianism
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17 Jun 2004, 21:11 (Ref:1007390)
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#13 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,744
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if a manufacturer can build a diesel to win le mans, they'll be able to write themselves a blank cheque with the resulting publicity. hence...its bound to happen, and probably from vag.
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__________________
I want you to drive flat out
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17 Jun 2004, 21:29 (Ref:1007412)
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 73
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Quote:
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17 Jun 2004, 22:44 (Ref:1007458)
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#15 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,206
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I think the alternative fuels cars- remember we had the Panoz hybrid fail to prequalify once too- show the real difference between the ACO's rules and F1. Here we have organisers who are embracing the new technologies (or the improvements upon old ones ) in order to acheive what the 24hrs was all about - a test of endurance to show the public that the manufacturers know what they are doing. Little things, like demanding the lights be kept on all the time help too. Couple that with the GT classes being based on road cars really does show the connection between the world's greatest race and ordinary vehicles. ...not that I think motor racing needs that justification, it is beautiful in and of itself anyway.
And the aero rules look like a step in the right direction, the Nasamax was very quick in a straight line (according to RLM)which ain't bad for a vehicle based on something that put Reynard out of business. Nice one ACO, see you next year! Last edited by Osella; 17 Jun 2004 at 22:45. |
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18 Jun 2004, 00:25 (Ref:1007478)
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#16 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 386
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Thanks, Mach1! I will be needing volunteer crew members if you're interested in a really intimate look at a 25 hour race...
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Stan Clayton Dauntless Racing
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18 Jun 2004, 07:16 (Ref:1007598)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 527
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I wish Taurus the very best with their diesel effort. Well, it was curious the noise (or the lack of it...), but, will you tell, the audis´ noise is very low (and remember the callaway 2001? It was so silent..)
Of course, I would like some screaming judds with them also... |
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18 Jun 2004, 07:47 (Ref:1007615)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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VW and Peugeot are most likely to build works racing diesels I think. Add to this independent developers like Perkins, Ricardo, AVL, and companies in other segments of the diesel market, such as Caterpillar. Why Cat got behind this project, not the more promising Ricardo/Judd, is something I don't understand - perhaps it was the money required that put them off. But you don't get Le Mans success cheap.
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Oops
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18 Jun 2004, 09:00 (Ref:1007653)
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#19 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11
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does anyone know if there were any CAT/Perkins badges on the car? I would have expected a fully CAT liveried up car as though they took naming rights in the team/car/engine...
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18 Jun 2004, 11:17 (Ref:1007770)
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Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 120
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Quote:
and I am definitively not joking ! 
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18 Jun 2004, 11:21 (Ref:1007773)
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#21 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 120
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Quote:
There was small to medium CAT stickers on the car Obviously this team was very poor, with a minimum budget. probably the poorest look in the pits. I have the feeling they have not even try to fix the gearbox. I wonder if they had a spare one... |
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18 Jun 2004, 11:57 (Ref:1007794)
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#22 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 356
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The main problem appears to be clutch not gearbox, not man enough for the job it seems. It really needs a purpose built box rather than the regular box with a step up box in front of it (which is where some of the weight is coming from).
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18 Jun 2004, 12:18 (Ref:1007819)
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#23 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 42
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The problem with the Taurus was (reportedly) that the clutch originally intended for the car, a carbon one to cope with the extra torque, failed before the race, possibly during qualifying, and a "standard" replacement had to be used, which so it seems was not up to the task of coping with the god-knows-how-much torque that the TD engine develops.
Also, from the interview that Ian Dawson gave to Autosport last week, it seems that the engine used, the VAG 5litre V10 TDI PD unit, was actually sourced direct from a road card, (Ian stated that he has a VW Touraug minus engine in his workshop!!), so I imagine there cannot have been too much in the way of "race preparation" on it. I'll stand corrected but I'm guessing that not too many Le Mans teams source their engines in this manner, so hats off to Taurus for such an innovative effort, on such a tiny budget, (circa £1m I believe, by comparison the Ricardo / Judd TD engine project was supposed to require something like £15m budget to make it viable). |
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18 Jun 2004, 13:02 (Ref:1007864)
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#24 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11
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I can assure everyone that every effort was made to fix the car, however MorganFan is correct the clutch was the issue. The car had several gearbox and clutch changes throughtout the event.
The team all worked very hard to acheive the 3 hours running that they did. This is the thin end of the Diesel wedge....... |
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__________________
Dave
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18 Jun 2004, 13:14 (Ref:1007877)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
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Quote:
Maybe it would be better, at least initially, to concentrate on the diesal with a hybrid or totally new chassis. |
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