The ALMS Prototype Dilema

[jhansen]

There's been a lot of discussion in the ALMS race threads on the thin prototype grid. While I'll agree the grids are small I still feel the racing has been good. However, it would sure be nice to progress from where we are now (which I think it can). A lot of conjecture and suggestions have been made. In that vain, I just read the following article on sportscarpros.com

http://www.sportscarpros.com/not-tha...ue/default.htm

It's a pretty good read and raises some interesting points. What are your thoughts?

[BSchneiderFan]

Very interesting article. I'm not sure I quite like the idea of twelve identical Panoz prototypes thundering around, but the essential point is a good one. Panoz/G-Force/Elan have the capability to produce protos for the new regulations, and if they were offered with Elan engines or conversion possibility to the Judd GV5 and such like, there are teams - Intersport, Doran, Essex - who would surely be interested. Why not a works Panoz team too?

It seems to be that we need some kind of critical mass. We need enough committed LMP1 teams - and that might only be half a dozen cars - for others to think it worthwhile entering. If you had, say, a pair of Champion Audis, a works Panoz prototype team, two Dyson Lola-MGs and an Intersport car or two, plus maybe AutoCon and Team Elite, all running on a regular basis , then Porsche or Mazda might jump in too. That could convince other teams to join what would be a prestigious championship, and hey presto! you're in business.

It occurs to me that G-Force built Nissan's last prototype, the R391, which always struck me as a car with some potential (though in Eric van de Poele's hands struck, well, the wall at Tertre Rouge! Sorry), so why doesn't G-Force produce a new LMP1 design and see who bites?

[SALEEN S7R]

Some good news - www.dailysportscar.com reports that Creation are planning on running in 2 ALMS events this year, Laguna Seca, and PLM. Its not set in stone just yet mind u, but Creation boss Mike Jankowski has said that they have every intention of being there.

[jhansen]

Good post B-Fan.

I posted elsewhere that Don Panoz could easily be fielding at least one LMP1. Or, at a minimum he could get a car to another team cheaply, either by a low price, or low rental agreement. I would think at least one or two teams would be interested in an offer like that. Instead, his only effort in the prototype class has been to bring out a car that is not even close to competitive.

And by no means do I think that the burden rests solely on Mr. Panoz. That's not reality. It may not be fruitfull for him to run a works team, or even sell customer cars. But the fact is, he could certainly get the ball rolling fast enough that other manufacturers would be interested. Champion expressed earlier this season that they want stiff competition. They will win the championship this year, but they'd like to be pushed for it. Audi want the competition also. It looks much better to spank someone like Porsche or Mazda.

And that's good news about Creation Saleen! We welcome them with open arms. I do think that the last two races of the season will see much better fields. But I'm looking a bit more long term.

[BSchneiderFan]

If Champion would field a second Audi, by the end of the season we could have:

2 Champion Audis
2 Dyson Lola-MGs
1 AutoCon Riley & Scott
1 Intersport Lola-Judd/Riley & Scott
1 Creation Zytek
1 works Zytek?
1 Team Elite Lotus?
1 Taurus Lola-Caterpillar?
1 Panoz??

That would be a pretty good omen for 2005, in my book.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
If Champion would field a second Audi, by the end of the season we could have:

2 Champion Audis
2 Dyson Lola-MGs
1 AutoCon Riley & Scott
1 Intersport Lola-Judd/Riley & Scott
1 Creation Zytek
1 works Zytek?
1 Team Elite Lotus? <- Not going to happen
1 Taurus Lola-Caterpillar? <- I thought they had Milka money and were going to run a good part of the season.. wonder what happened?
1 Panoz?? <- Perhaps the GTR at PLM

That would be a pretty good omen for 2005, in my book.

I watched the Mosport 2000 race last night. 8 LMP's and an incredible race.

2 Champion Audis, 2 Factory backed Porsche's, 1 competitive Dyson entry, and a Zytek, and you would have one heck of a series.

[marcush.]

if i were team creation i would field the DBA in as many races as possible,instead of keeping the aging Lister alive,not even within a shout of winning a Fia-GT event this year(with the possible exception of SPA in a few days).The DBA is surely capable of winning at every race they enter and should make for some upset in the states,and it would make sense to get into it this year if they are already considering to go for a AlMS campaign next year...mind you four races plus LeMans is surely not enough for a racecar of the calibre of the DBA bearing in mind it won´t be eligible forever and the developments
have to translate into results to justitify the investments...

[JAG]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
If Champion would field a second Audi, by the end of the season we could have:

2 Champion Audis
2 Dyson Lola-MGs
1 AutoCon Riley & Scott
1 Intersport Lola-Judd/Riley & Scott
1 Creation Zytek
1 works Zytek?
1 Team Elite Lotus?
1 Taurus Lola-Caterpillar?
1 Panoz??

That would be a pretty good omen for 2005, in my book.

But the ALMS cannot rely on the European teams to compete in the whole ALMS schedule.

The ALMS needs 2 more LMP1 teams with the commitment of Dyson. Add a second Champion Audi and that would be a great LMP1 field. Surely 2 more top 'privateer' teams is not too much to ask.

[BSchneiderFan]

The point of the works Zytek running late-season ALMS races would be to advertise the car to customers.

Is the Team Elite project dead in the water? Tim Northcutt will no doubt know more, but they were talking big the last I heard.

[JAG]

If Team JOTA can upgrade from running a Pilbeam LMP2, to a Zytek in the LMES, what US teams could do the same in the ALMS?

[BSchneiderFan]

Mind you, Jota haven't exactly set the world on fire in the LMES with their Zytek.

[Tim Northcutt]

I haven't heard hardly anything....

[BSchneiderFan]

Shame if Elite are dead. They had big plans and seemed to think that the Lotus, with a new engine, had a lot of potential.

[jhansen]

It was odd, in one post it was mentioned that they didn't have sponsorship money troubles, but had a problem with WHEN the sponsorship money kicked in. This program has appeared on the surface to be a bit half cocked. That's only my opinion and is based soley on comments posted here and comments read elsewhere, and of course, their track record, or lack thereof. I still question the choice of car, which even if running, would only be competitive by default. There are certainly more viable and affordable choices out there as Tim found in his "shoe string" thread.

[Tim Northcutt]

The way I understood it, they got a very good deal on that Lotus...and they felt that the car had a lot of undeveloped potential...

It has been about 6 weeks since I have heard anything, and that was based on info gotten here on the Forum, plus an e-mail from ah746...

I really don't know what is up with them...

At one point, they were moving to Indy, but in another thread, someone posted that the car was still in Florida....

So I'm not sure when or where we will see them race...

[Tim Northcutt]

Sorry...I did receive an e-mail exactly a month ago that was a basic news release concerning why they would not be racing at Mid-Ohio. Here is a copy of the news release:

"
June, 21, 2004
For immediate release;

Elite feels time needs to be spent on car improvements

“Team Elite has regretfully decided not to participate at Mid Ohio. After the team’s experience in Sebring and the number of changes required to bring the car up to speed, we feel it is best to concentrate on the engine program and car improvements so that we can make the best showing on track.”

Keith Smout

Team Elite is currently working on some exciting developments and plans to make further announcements soon. Visit www.teameliteracing.com for more information.

For more information on Team Elite, please contact Keith Smout or Gary Ankenmann at 905-274-3779 or email info@elisegtpracing.com "

They also posted more Sebring pics on July 7th on their site....

but I haven't heard anything on updates since...

[JAG]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Mind you, Jota haven't exactly set the world on fire in the LMES with their Zytek.

But they are a relatively small team, and have only ran the car in two races so far.

[MorganFan]

Also, what's happened to Autocon? I know they were pretty cheesed off about not getting selected for LM (who can blame them when you consider this years selection farce), hopefully they havn't called it a day, the R&S is a great car (from a fans perspective anyway, if not a technical one), and would make up for the loss of the Panoz's, as we seem a bit short on V8 thunder now. I checked their website and it doesn't seem to have been updated for some time.

With the LMES series off to quite a start, in terms of grid sizes at least, could/should the respective authorities consider merging the two series? How practical is that - I have no idea as to how affordable nor not it is for small teams to ship the cars to the 'states or vice-versa.

Seems to me that would be quite a series....just a thought though.

[SALEEN S7R]

Good idea Morgan fan, apart from one thing. It wont happen because there would be too many entrants and not enough spaces. The LMES is almost at full capacity now as it is, it could maybe have another 10-12 cars in the series at most, any more than that and the ACO would be turning people away. Dont mean to be negative, but it isnt practical unfortunatly.

[MorganFan]

Saleen - I thought that would be the case, still would be nice to see. Having looked at the grids in the ALMS recently I was a bit shocked, they seemed pretty sparse. That said, I understand that the series has a pretty good following in the US, at least in terms of number attending the race, so I am surprised that there aren't more teams looking at racing something other than 911's.

Given the paucity of mainstream coverage of the LMES, (possibly some hidden coverage on the BBC website if your lucky in the UK), I am surpised at the decent grids, several races into the series, that it seems to be attracting, can only be good for the future, sadly, I am less confident about the ALMS.

[gttouring]

oh where oh where have the protoyptes and GTS cars gone?
well GTS is looking healthier with ferrari corvette war joined by Lamborghini. but we need another few cars here too.
the LMP/LMGTP deosn't need Spec Panoz racers, or Euroc styled cars to fill fields, it is like making the Daytonaprototypes all over again.
Prototypes chassis builders don't seem to be supported by the series or anyone, I have the old champcar type mentality
where there are chassis manufacturers and engine manufacturers and you can pick em and switchem and mix and match to make whatever combination you see as fit...
A panoz with the turbo caddy motor, an elan/ford, a Nissan v6 turbo... a coourage with the panoz elan 6 litre in the back
the Caterpillar oilburner in the zytek or dome...
all engines available to anyone who needs it and chassis to match, with the caveat that it is a seasonal deal...

[jhansen]

Travel costs wouldn't help either. It would take a lot of money. The large teams would travel and the small ones wouldn't. A global prototype series would work, but again, show me the money. And the series would need committed manufacturer involvement. I think what we have now will work best with the ALMS and LMES. The ALMS just needs to transition forward. Hopefully that happens sooner than later.

Interesting thoughts gttouring, as long as the cars stayed ACO legal it would work. Although, will you exclude someone like Audi? They're not going to part their car out for it.

[SALEEN S7R]

A global LMP championship? Havent we been down that road before?

[jhansen]

I believe I did say it wouldn't work more or less.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by jhansen
A global prototype series would work,

You did? Okay then.