F1 Stories.....

Stargazer7 · 21 Sep 2005, 01:01 (Ref:1412736)

This topic is about stories inspired from the legends of F1. If you are not bored, just write down facts that you've heard, seen or read. Of course you can be as much dramatic and romantic as you want...

This is one (well-known probably) about the war between Ayrton and Alain

You know, when Senna was disqualified and Prost won the WDC, Senna accused Jean-Marie Balestre (FIA president at that time) of acting in benefit of Alain Prost because they were co-patriots! As a result Senna became the black ship of FIA's director, the worst enemy of three time world champion Prost (that was just the tip of the iceberg for their bad relationship though...) and the favourite driver for fans all over the world because he opposed to the system. Not a bad reason for loving him...

Next year (1990), same track, Ayrton Senna states: "Prost should not try to overtake me because this is not gonna happen..." And it didn't. Senna crashes Prost, they both abandoned the race and AS wins the world championship, almost the same way he lost the year before (or at least in his mind). I need to say though that Prost managed to challenge him with an inferior car. (McLaren MP4/5B vs. Ferrari 641)

The envy between the two was more than ever. Senna stated that the only driver he was really afraid of was Nigel Mansell (just a big lie of course...) and Prost told the press that Senna is a lunatic and must be punished for life not to race again (that's a lie too, what Prost would have been without Senna and vice versa?)

The competition never ceased until the retirement of Alain in the end of 1993. At Imola 1994 Prost was there as Renault guest. He had the opportunity to speak with Ayrton Senna via the car radio. Their dialogue went like this: "Hello, Senna! How have you been? Please win the race soon." Senna replied "A hello for my friend Alain. I miss you..."

The next day Ayrton Senna passed away...

You can find lot of info about the two at these sites:
http://www.senna-web.com/en/ (it has Senna vs prost section, very interesting)
http://www.prostfan.com/senna1.htm
There are both sides of the story.

Jordi · 21 Sep 2005, 10:12 (Ref:1412966)

Actually if I recall correctly, Ayrton was on air on the formation lap I believe...

You could say that maybe without Prost Ayrton perhaps lost some of his drive. His big nemesis wasn't there anymore. However, 3 races is too little to know and if someone had a passion for racing and winning, this was Ayrton.

Halsey · 21 Sep 2005, 11:50 (Ref:1413018)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordi

You could say that maybe without Prost Ayrton perhaps lost some of his drive. His big nemesis wasn't there anymore. However, 3 races is too little to know and if someone had a passion for racing and winning, this was Ayrton.

Yeah, I heard it was on the formation lap... As for the first three races in '94 - I believe two of them he spun off while trying to catch the leader (I'm pretty sure if was Schumacher on both occasions), and the other one he was elbowed off the track in an incident. I also believe that the car wasn't particularly good at the start of the season, but they were able to turn it around throughout the season.

I think his passion for racing and winning was undoubtedly still there, and is underlined by his eventual move to Williams that year, as it was the best car on the grid.

Stargazer7 · 21 Sep 2005, 12:02 (Ref:1413031)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey

I think his passion for racing and winning was undoubtedly still there, and is underlined by his eventual move to Williams that year, as it was the best car on the grid.

Actually, his arrival at Williams-Renault was maybe the main reason for Alain's retirement. He definitely didn't want Ayrton his teamate again. So, in addition to some poor performances in 1993 (inc. Donnington '93) despite the dominance of Williams and winning the title, he decided to retire

This fact though is indicating the respect they had for each other...

ggreen29 · 21 Sep 2005, 12:34 (Ref:1413064)

A story about Denny Hulme at:
http://www.liveupdater.com/mclaren/L...tID=2111335642

It's a medium length story so print it out and read it at your leisure. An unexpected road rally after an F1 race, with a happy ending!

I like the story for a couple of reasons. I'm a fan of Denny from the Can-Am days, but mostly this story shows how different F1 was back in those days. It was more of a club than a mega business profession.

More stories available here:
http://www.mclarenmotorsport.co.nz/frame-phil.html

Halsey · 21 Sep 2005, 13:29 (Ref:1413098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stargazer7

Actually, his arrival at Williams-Renault was maybe the main reason for Alain's retirement. He definitely didn't want Ayrton his teamate again. So, in addition to some poor performances in 1993 (inc. Donnington '93) despite the dominance of Williams and winning the title, he decided to retire

This fact though is indicating the respect they had for each other...

My bad... I thought you were referring to/questioning Senna's lack of passion/motivation

kurtwh73 · 25 Sep 2005, 10:40 (Ref:1415860)

Jerez 97 . The first 3 drivers Qualified with exactly the same time .

aj_308 · 25 Sep 2005, 11:18 (Ref:1415881)

I thought it was four?

Halsey · 25 Sep 2005, 11:25 (Ref:1415886)

I thought there were only three?

Schumacher, Villeneuve, Frentzen...?

SPARK Msport · 25 Sep 2005, 11:53 (Ref:1415898)

It was three, Damon Hill was fourth on the gird with his Arrows.

aj_308 · 25 Sep 2005, 12:06 (Ref:1415906)

ok, my bad.
Someone did an awesome post a while back referring to four score and seven.
Is there ant chance timing went only to three decimals at that point..
Im trying to remember :-(

Marbot · 25 Sep 2005, 12:11 (Ref:1415909)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPARK Msport

It was three, Damon Hill was fourth on the gird with his Arrows.

I remember that lap at Jerez,i think DH was also baulked slightly by his team mate Pedro "in the oven" Diniz.

Jordi · 25 Sep 2005, 14:26 (Ref:1415967)

It was almost more impressive that Damon in an Arrows was just a tenth away from two Williams and a Ferrari, you know!

The last race held in Jerez, as the local politicians got into the podium when they shouldn't have been handing trophies. Bernie crossed 'em off.

Stargazer7 · 26 Sep 2005, 01:50 (Ref:1416455)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I remember that lap at Jerez,i think DH was also baulked slightly by his team mate Pedro "in the oven" Diniz.

Pole position was won by Jacques Villeneuve [1:21:072] because he was the first to set that time. Second was Michael and third H.H. (his one and only eternal enemy, don't forget) with the exact same time. Damon Hill was 0.058'' slower, due to a slower car that spinned in front of him in the last turn (Curva Ducados), as he claimed later... Pedro Diniz was 13th.

I would also like to add that David Coulthard let Mika Hakkinen win his first race after letting him pass about three laps before the end. DC was disappointed as it was then when he understood that Mika was favoured by Ron Dennis and the team in general. This was because Mika stayed loyal to the McLaren team during the tough years (1993 - 1997). Not so fair though...

PS. It was the European (from 1994 was being held there) and not the Spanish GP.

macdaddy · 26 Sep 2005, 02:55 (Ref:1416475)

You're spot-on, Stargazer7. I've compiled those three runs consecutively onto VHS, and have watched it (and the race) many times over the past 8 years. That qualifying run was amazing. After the second interval, Schumacher was ahead of Villeneuve. Likewise, Frentzen was ahead of Schumacher. But only Jacques had a strong third-sector.

That was the season that Schumacher scored zero points.

Stargazer7 · 2 Oct 2005, 02:45 (Ref:1421876)

I remembered the story of Jean Alesi at Monza in 1993. It was the race where he finished second after many DNFs from the other drivers (Senna, Scumacher, Prost) with only Damon Hill being in front of his Ferrari with a far superior Williams FW-15.

The italian crowd really went crazy. They rushed into the track at the end of the race waving their scarlet flags, cheering for their idol... Alesi was waving a Ferrari flag too whilst still being in his car. He repeatedly kissed the flag on the podium, showing his loyalty to the tifosi. Damon Hill was astonished! Those where moments of pure passion never to be repeated in Monza (or Imola) despite the great amount of victories scored there by Michael Scumacher....

Monza 12.09.1993, J.Alesi at podium

Jean Alesi Stats:
Entries 174
Starts 173
Did not start 1
Races Led 19
Laps in Lead 265
Laps Raced 7,364
Fastest Laps 4
Pole Positions 2
Front Row Starts 10
1st 1
2nd 16
3rd 15
4th 11
5th 14
6th 9
Other Places 34
Retirements 73
Points 236.0

Captain Chaos · 2 Oct 2005, 13:06 (Ref:1422002)

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdaddy

That was the season that Schumacher scored zero points.

mac, while that is a true statement, respectfully i'd suggest there is a difference between scoring zero points and having all his points erased.

i've always wondered how history will treat that little incident because it took an entire season to compile those points (the exact number escapes me) and a nano-second to erase them. granted, what he did was pretty foolhardy but in my heart i believe schumie earned those points and they should count in his career total.

and admittedly i haven't thought about what should have happened if he successfully punted JV off and actually won the WDC that way.

tricky, that one.

**Bononi** · 2 Oct 2005, 14:31 (Ref:1422040)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Chaos

i've always wondered how history will treat that little incident because it took an entire season to compile those points (the exact number escapes me) and a nano-second to erase them. granted, what he did was pretty foolhardy but in my heart i believe schumie earned those points and they should count in his career total.

After being 7 times champion, I guess history won't bother to detail this fall, altough some people would never forgive him.

chillibowl · 3 Oct 2005, 15:49 (Ref:1422953)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

After being 7 times champion, I guess history won't bother to detail this fall, altough some people would never forgive him.

granted most people will in the long run not remember the darker moments of MS, but for sure there are a whole bunch of soon to be drivers who have watched MS over the years and what they will see is a guy who is willing to do anything to win, including driving someone of the track (even now in his old age he still acts this way). its a valuable insight into the mind set of arguablly the best of all time.
perhaps (and mind you im not entirely convinced this is true but) the reason people dont see any characters in F1 anymore is simply that no one out there has both the ability to win and drive like a winner at the same time.

not thread related but are MS' poles in that '97 year still being counted in the most poles title?

Red Emperor · 3 Oct 2005, 16:02 (Ref:1422961)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

granted most people will in the long run not remember the darker moments of MS, but for sure there are a whole bunch of soon to be drivers who have watched MS over the years and what they will see is a guy who is willing to do anything to win, including driving someone of the track (even now in his old age he still acts this way). its a valuable insight into the mind set of arguablly the best of all time.
perhaps (and mind you im not entirely convinced this is true but) the reason people dont see any characters in F1 anymore is simply that no one out there has both the ability to win and drive like a winner at the same time.

not thread related but are MS' poles in that '97 year still being counted in the most poles title?

Yes.
He maintain all his results.
The situation is that, for Championship standings, and this only, his results are erased.
But of course he maintains all his results (poles, first rows, fastest laps, victories and so on)

Kicking-back · 3 Oct 2005, 16:58 (Ref:1422992)

Indeed.

And he maintains the points as well.

ensign14 · 3 Oct 2005, 17:03 (Ref:1422996)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

After being 7 times champion, I guess history won't bother to detail this fall, altough some people would never forgive him.

That's why he wanted to win 7. I think he still regrets on some level 1994. So he wanted to break the record legit. (And maybe 1995 was not exactly on the level...)

QuickSilver · 3 Oct 2005, 17:03 (Ref:1422997)

thanks kb, i didn't know that.

ensign14 · 3 Oct 2005, 20:12 (Ref:1423148)

Somewhere in a stinking jungle of the coast of Africa, he dreamed.

He'd had the odd rally back home, and had a go in those midget monomills, but there was no way he would achieve his dream without money.

So he decided to get some. Quick. Pack in the life in metropolitan France and make a fortune in the colonies. The hot, humid, liquid atmosphere of Madagascar was as oppressive as a sky full of anvils, but he could make a few sous here and there. Stick it out, keep nose clean, and come back home with l'argent.

A few years later, he was back. He'd enjoyed himself in the years, but the dream was still there, burning him. He had tried everything to make it. Rallying was a dead end but he parlezed it into sportscars. Formula Junior came along, a step back in power, but a step forward in motor racing. A couple of championships, like that chap Clark in England, but that had availed him rien. Other than a Le Mans drive. Big crash.

Formula 2 was the only way forward, but he was getting on a bit. Time was running out. Maybe form his own team? His mate Guy had been in Formula 1. Shall we run something from Bruce for a year? Take it into F1 perhaps? Too late for me, 40 years old, it's not going to happen. Too many youngsters, Beltoise, Jaussaud, Servoz-Gavin.

Then a phone call. Mr Soichiro on a trade mission to France. They've got this new car, the lead driver has had a go, it's twitchy, he does not want to use it, but how about yourself? Home driver, good publicity. Even a couple of laps.

He leapt at the chance. Down one end of the pit lane, away from the main team, a second class citizen, but who cares? There at last. Parading around the Rouen course in the pre-race lap, he got the loudest cheers.

4pm start time, a bit later than normal, rain falling. The flag drops, last on the grid, engine keeps cutting out, not a chance to impress but I'm not giving up now, not after so long, so much heartache, so much suffering. I've done it. Jo Schlesser was driving in the French Grand Prix.

gazza285 · 3 Oct 2005, 23:24 (Ref:1423270)

Jo Schlesser was driving in the French Grand Prix.

Tragedy of the highest order.

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