I just got my copy of "The Marshal"

[Stoowert]

and on page two is an article detailing the result of the marshal's survey. My goodness, there are some shocks in there - NOT!
1. We Don't want to be paid but we still want H&S rights
2. Access to toilets, parking, dry areas, changing rooms
3. Safer working conditions
4. Early sign-ons, with ages before anything happens (rally stages)
5. Bolshy spectators (Rally stages again)
6. Boring race meetings
7. Races cancelled if entry falls below pre-ordained number
8. Pro-active adverts and initiatives to raise publics' awareness of marshals
9. More encoragement for young people to join our ranks
10. Money-off vouchers for clothing etc
11. Single means of voluteering, rather than individual clubs. (I thought we had...)
12. Some clubs treat marshals as nescessary evils
13. Guest tickets are hard to obtain
14. Drivers don't appreciate us
15. Thumbs up to JP for his "Marshals Trackday" initiative. More curcuit owners take note!

Hardly any bombshells there. The sad thing is I wrote to the then-Chairman of the marshal's club some 3 years ago, saying I was resigning from the club. He wrote back, saying a working party was looking at proposals not unlike those mentioned above. That was 3 years ago, and very little has happened, with the exception of several lunch breaks gone, and worse marshals huts. Where I commend JP for his Trackdays, that's largely cosmetic. The money spent on that come be used to make our lives more tolerable while trackside (or stage-side).

I don't like to poor cold water on this survey, but I think it's time something concrete can out of all these meetings and working parties - before it's too late.

There, a whole rant and no mention of land lines - bugger!

[spottymarshal]

Stoowert

I read mine too and thought the same as you.

Afaik the only circuit to provide toilets at each post is Snetterton

Ok i'll add about land lines, i was at Brands 4a for the Trucks at the weekend and although we were issued with radios this was for when we were behind the catch fencing during the trucks.

We got to post and checked the phone and it didn't work, tried the radio could transmit and not recieve luckily i had a scanner and could let the Obs know when his call was being answered until a replacement radio came.

The phone line didn't get repaired until after lunch although one posts phone didn't get fixed at all and the same post had a phone problem on sunday.

I think the whole phone line system needs a complete overhaul if it's to be used properly.

[Chris Hobson]

Oh Dear,

I had hoped that, via this forum and our own website, we were starting to make a breakthrough in communicating what was happening in the on-going attempts to improve marshals conditions, but the comments above seem to show otherwise.

If you have read "the marshal", then you will have seen the leading article on Volunteers in Motorsport.

If you have marshalled at Cadwell, Snetterton, Brands Hatch or Oulton Park you should have seen the improvements made by MSV.

If you have followed any of the recent threads on this forum you will also have seen evidence of progress in many of the areas you have highlighted.

There are many people working like crazy, in their sparetime, at their own expense, to improve marshalling conditions at all levels of the sport. People who should be encouraged in their efforts, rather than have to read the type of sarcastic comments made here.

We fully realise that we still have a long way to go and that we need to ensure changes are continued, especially with regard to length of meetings, poor grids and racing etc. I have received an invitation to address the Motor Sports Council in February and will be using that opportunity to press for many of the improvements highlighted in the survey in "The Marshal", in the surveys on this forum and from our own research. This invitation follows discussions with the MSA - copies of which will be appearing on the BMMC website in the near future. I will also post all further discussions on that site.

If anyone has suggestions (preferably constructive) as to how we can improve the facilities on circuit, rallies or at any motorsport venue, then please contact John Symes at the MSA as detailed in "The Marshal" and let me have a copy.

Please, please, please, give your club reps the information and support they need to continue to do the great job they do at present. We do need to make progress if we are to recruit, train and retain marshals. I have no problem with debating how we can move things forward and have no problem either in accepting responsibility to get results following those discussions.

The BMMC AGM at Mallory Park in December will provide a platform for all our members to see what has been achieved in the past year and to help shape the way we move forward. As the only club solely dedicated to representing the marshal we welcome all marshals from whatever discipline, level and club they follow.

As always my e-mail address is bmmc.chair@btinternet.com.

Chris Hobson
National Chairman
BMMC

[Gridlock]

Hi Chris
I appreciate that people are working hard in their own time but from the above comments and those made elsewhere on the forum either marshals cannot see improvements or you are not getting the message across as and when improvements are made. We certainly dont see results from these many meetings. My home main circuits are Brands and Silverstone. Silverstone facilities are generally good and MSV made some improvements initially but those affecting marshals have changed little. Your efforts and work is well meaning and I appreciate its not easy. Unless improvements are seen to be made then it appears to be promises, promises. "A little like a certain Mr Blair" I dont want to be critical but if things are being done the message is not getting through?

[Sheila M]

We got FOUR copies of this publication - one each from our marshals Licences, one for me because of the Clerk's Licence and one for Steve because of his Rescue Licence. I'm going to take up the offer on page 5 and put one of the extra copies in Reception at work to see if I can't drum up some trade.

Perhaps others in the same situation could do the same. I'm sure the local doctor's surgery, dentists, solicitors, hairdressers etc., would be grateful for some up to date reading material instead of the usual copies of Hello! from 1994.

[Clive]

Chris you have my wholehearted support and if those moaning got off their rear ends and helped as much as they moan, maybe we would see more changes quicker??

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Clive

Chris you have my wholehearted support and if those moaning got off their rear ends and helped as much as they moan, maybe we would see more changes quicker??

And how do you suggest these so called moaners assist apart from voicing their opinions??

Many are not in the position that Chris is in whereby he can communicate regularly and even face to face with those that can make the improvements happen so it just leaves putting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Clive

Chris you have my wholehearted support and if those moaning got off their rear ends and helped as much as they moan, maybe we would see more changes quicker??

Ditto the first part, too busy for the second part, hence I support the marshals club by both membership and word to act on my behalf.

We have to be realistic that there's only so much that can be done until the MSA get a grip and act in the best interests of British Motorsport, something they seem very reluctant to do.

[Daf_Loz]

The phone line didn't get repaired until after lunch although one posts phone didn't get fixed at all and the same post had a phone problem on sunday.

I think the whole phone line system needs a complete overhaul if it's to be used properly.

The phone lines rely on BT coming out to fix them and therefor the jobs will get queued. Are you sure the other post's phone got reported as if BT were there then they would've fixed it at the same time.

How do you overhaul a phone line system? If BT come out and fix any problems and therefore they are all working what do you say to them? Please come and have a look at why the phone system might not work, even though it is, and look to fix it even though it isn't currently broken. Or would you say - please come out and pull all the phone lines out and then put them all back in again?

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Clive

Chris you have my wholehearted support and if those moaning got off their rear ends and helped as much as they moan, maybe we would see more changes quicker??

Perhaps there would be less moaning and more understanding if the results of the meetings and all the work were seen to be having an effect. If there is no improvements seen or a lack of communication about what is being achieved then there are bound to be those that question what is being done.
Publishing a list of what has been achieved this year would be a good start!
Regarding getting off their rear ends there are those who are already committed heavily to voluntary work and other charitable activities outside the sport
Just because they are unable to take part does not mean they cant have opinions or give comments on the results of those who accept responsible postions in an organisation we pay to belong too.

[Garry Holmes]

The fact that the powers that be accept ther is a problem is surely the first step. The lack of communication from the club however is something that does personally annoy me - all that has been said is people have gone to meeting and they may have been constructive, rather than anything concrete. So what we get are chinese wispers and rumours about what is happening. If you have a look on the BRMC site there is a copy of their submission to the msa. At the end of the day the scheme is not just for the BMMC it is something for ALL clubs (big and small) and hopefully for the greater good of the sport as a whole, which should be something we should all support and be behind.

[Stephen Green]

Chris Hobson as Chairman of the BMMC has been more transparent than any Chairman I have seen before. Communications are not only posted on the BMMC website but also here on ten-tenths. I know you have heard it all before and that you don't see change at the drop of a hat, but Rome wasn't built in a day as the saying goes.

There are a considerable number of people working very hard towards getting improvements in all sorts of areas of marshalling but, as I have said on many occasions before, you cannot expect circuit owners to spend vast amounts of money without a corresponding income stream.

In the first part circuits must make themselves attractive to spectators and competitors, after all they are the ones paying to watch or enter races. As with everything in life there are priorities that have to be adhered to and I am afraid we are not top of the list. Don't take that to mean we are not being listened to because I assure you we are, and the Volunteers in Motorsport initiative is, I believe, a huge step in the right direction. The BMMC are working very closely with the MSA and VIM to make sure your voices and needs are met and I would hope you will see the benefits before too long.

As Chris has said in his previous post, John Symes has given you his contact details in order that you CAN voice your opinion and express concerns. So, if you have particular beefs then voice them to John! As many of you know, if you write to Chris Hobson you get a frank and honest answer, I hope you feel you get the same from me and any other Council member of the BMMC.

Please have the good grace to bear with us as we strive to make things right, not only for our members but for ALL marshals throughout motorsport.

Stephen Green
National P.R.O.
BMMC.

[Clive]

Asking questions is right and proper and i have absolutely no desire to stop people doing that. What annoys me is people moaning about 'lack of information' when it is in the public domain to be viewed. And i am well aware that most people have other activities that take up their valuable time, voluntary or otherwise, so please don;t let's get too high-handed over this. You can see that we are trying to move things forward in a transparent way and if you ask, we try and answer, what more can we do?

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Daf_Loz

The phone lines rely on BT coming out to fix them and therefor the jobs will get queued. Are you sure the other post's phone got reported as if BT were there then they would've fixed it at the same time.

How do you overhaul a phone line system? If BT come out and fix any problems and therefore they are all working what do you say to them? Please come and have a look at why the phone system might not work, even though it is, and look to fix it even though it isn't currently broken. Or would you say - please come out and pull all the phone lines out and then put them all back in again?

With my professional hat on, I would have to say it depends on the system. What I have always assumed was in place was a series of copper tie lines back to a key system in the control tower. If that is the case, then the problem can be a line issue or it could be a handset issue or it could be a PBX issue. It really depends on what is happening. It's also possible that BT are not responsible for the PBX/Handset side of the system and therefore would only be involved if it had been proven that the fault was a line fault.

Overhauling it could involve a lot of different things. If you really want to know what could be done, give me the details of what you've got and I'll take a look at it. I am a Telecoms engineer after all!

[Gridlock]

To respond to both Clive and Stephen. I wont reiterate what I have said before as I believe it should be quite clear, however I may be missing something. Chris and Stephen have responded on this forum a number of times about the issues being discussed for which I thank them. However there appears no communication as to the results of those discussions and if and when they are likely to be considered. I am not being high handed so if I am missing something can you please tell me where on this forum or on any website where I can find what has been agreed over the past twelve months?
Unless there is transparency both in what is raised and what is agreed members will always express there concerns.
When achievements are being made they should be publicied from the roof tops so that new marshals can see the advantages of joining the BMMC who on the whole do a good job.
I raised a question with Stephen on Sunday and was told it is in hand to be discussed at the next meeting. I look forward to the feedback on the matter raised?

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Clive

Chris you have my wholehearted support and if those moaning got off their rear ends and helped as much as they moan, maybe we would see more changes quicker??

Clive,
You and I have argued over this before, and without wishing to offend (Again!) or crossing back over to the "Dark Side"............

I have lost count at the number of times I have sent emails, made phone calls etc to members of my regional BMMC Committee, with offers of help/ideas/suggestions. If their reply to me was "No" or "Thanks But No Thanks" - then fine. BUT, the frustrating bit is that none of them ever reply!

My region has several members who "Multi-task" - IE do more than one role. Surely this can't be the best of situations, as full dedication to a particular role cannot be achieved if there is a secondary role to concentrate on?

As I have said previously, I am fully behind the BMMC - I want to be more involved - and support their aims for the future of marshalling.

Some of these aims have quietly been achieved already!
I say quietly, because they have not really been shouted about!
So, BMMC - when you do get something sorted - blow your own trumpet a bit!

[spottymarshal]

Originally Posted by Daf_Loz

The phone lines rely on BT coming out to fix them and therefor the jobs will get queued. Are you sure the other post's phone got reported as if BT were there then they would've fixed it at the same time.

How do you overhaul a phone line system? If BT come out and fix any problems and therefore they are all working what do you say to them? Please come and have a look at why the phone system might not work, even though it is, and look to fix it even though it isn't currently broken. Or would you say - please come out and pull all the phone lines out and then put them all back in again?

Thanks for that Daf_Loz

My thinking is that the actual outer casing that holds the telephone cables may have over the years worn away causing water etc to seep through damaging the wires inside.

In our own homes we can add new extensions as required so why can't the circuits examine the system after the season has finished to see what condition the system is in.

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by spottymarshal

Thanks for that Daf_Loz

My thinking is that the actual outer casing that holds the telephone cables may have over the years worn away causing water etc to seep through damaging the wires inside.

In our own homes we can add new extensions as required so why can't the circuits examine the system after the season has finished to see what condition the system is in.

I am sorry to say that it is not always the elements that cause the damage. One day some months ago it was found on the Monday, on the 'Old' Post 23 (Centre of Clearways) after a (dare I say it; a "bike" meeting) the junction box screwed to the concrete base of the Post had been smashed off by one would think, kicking!! After another Meeting the internal "socket" box within the Post at 7 had been torn off the wall. I know that BT, once a fault call has been made to them, normally respond within on average, about three hours, but the onus is on somebody reporting the fault. During the day BEFORE a Race Meeting, the Circuit Electrician does his rounds and personally checks each telephone for servicability. Telephones also get "removed!!" Say no more!

[numbersix]

I think everone's trying very hard, and even though my general feeling about commitees and sub-commitees is that they are a good way of seeming busy without actually making any progress, I think that what The Marshal puts forward is constructive and useful and guys like Chris are to be commended. Thank you Chris.
As for action, I suspect little will happen until whole race days are cancelled through a lack of marshals. I don't mean a strike (for fear of getting thumped) but the natural erosion of good marshals who either retire, move on, or become HIGHLY selective about when and where they marshal.
Can you imagine if F1, or BTCC didn't get enough marshals one day? I think the changes would be fast-tracked very quickly indeed.
Of course if a day is cancelled it's not the circuit that suffers, it's the club who spent fifteen grand hiring the circuit that suffers. And they can't fix the telephone lines.
Sadly I think a race cancellation (through lack of volunteers) is going to happen one day, and if it does, we'll probably get the blame anyway.

[CombeMarshal]

A little off topic, but still on 'The Marshal'
Who writes the coments at the back? (the ones from the MSA that finish on the back page)
I don't know if it's just the way I read it but they seem like a bit of a jibe, But it could be just how I read it!

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

A little off topic, but still on 'The Marshal'
Who writes the coments at the back? (the ones from the MSA that finish on the back page)
I don't know if it's just the way I read it but they seem like a bit of a jibe, But it could be just how I read it!

Sorry, but it seems quite fair to me. I think that the item to e-mail John Symes about the safety factors on Marshals Posts is reasonable. We wouldhope that Marshals Posts could be seriously included on the Track Licences, which would mean the Circuit Owners would have to act. Most Circuits have improved conditions marginally, over the last few months, but others, although showing willingness, have still to get out the JCB's and Builders!!

[Mike Kelly 1]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Sadly I think a race cancellation (through lack of volunteers) is going to happen one day, and if it does, we'll probably get the blame anyway.

It's already happened at Cadwell last year.

[EvilPumpkin]

Guys, I'm going to say something here that may not be popular, but I'm going to say it anyway. You have absolutely no idea how good you have it compared to other places.

• You have three huge marshals clubs with enough clout to actually get some things done and enough people willing to do the work to get them done.
• You have a motorsport representative body that actually trains its officials, gets involved and makes an effort with regard to safety
• You have the option of going elsewhere if you are not happy with how you're treated by the circuit/racing club/marshals club

Ok fair enough, you have issues - we all do. But before everyone starts going on about how hard done to they are and how no-one does anything about it, count your blessings.

You could be living in Ireland.

• One marshals' club, with a very small committee of highly dedicated but overworked volunteers trying to do all the jobs at once and also marshal as well.
• A motorsport body that only gives a toss about rallying and will only start caring about circuit marshalling when someone gets killed - and even then, the only interest they're likely to take is to see how they can get out of paying the insurance
• Don't like it? Give up, cos there's no place else to go.

Raise your issues by all means - but be kind and have a bit of respect. You're far better off than you realise.

Apologies for the rant and hope I haven't offended anyone, but I thought a reality check was in order.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Guys, I'm going to say something here that may not be popular, but I'm going to say it anyway.

That could be my new signature!

[numbersix]

Everything's relative. My daughter works in St John's as a volunteer. She gets free uniform, free training every week, travelling expenses (if a bus isn't laid on), a warm room, usually with brewing facilities and quite often a snack lunch provided by the event organisers. And she gets invited to the Queen's bash!
St. John's is a charity of course, and non-profit making - but they charge the event organisers. Discuss.