Looks like 12 teams for good (or bad)

Draven · 15 Feb 2006, 11:13 (Ref:1523282)

Max has suggested that F1 will not be moving the 12 team maximum limit anytime soon.

Link to article.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=35031

This makes me very sad indeed, one of the changes I had hoped for most was a lifting of this limit or at least a raise to 14 teams.

Reasons of Pit Garage allocation may be good ones but I for one think that an business that is worth as much as F1 would find a way around this at venues.
I believe the more cars the better for us fans simply because there will always be different groups fighting it out in different areas of the table and this way these groups would be bigger and probably more interesting.
(and now he's suggesting a relegation structure!)

Jordan/Minardi battle last year would have looked better to the world if there were 2 more teams contesting it.

More teams the better chance of a good honest close fought battle somewhere in the field.

Am I wrong?

Suze · 15 Feb 2006, 11:19 (Ref:1523291)

out of interest - which circuits cannot hold more than twelve teams in garages? what with new circuits coming in and the like, should be a way around it.

Rick · 15 Feb 2006, 11:25 (Ref:1523296)

Max is just playing games to put the pressure on for the rest to sign up.

**Bononi** · 15 Feb 2006, 11:33 (Ref:1523300)

Yeah... that seems to be his plot.

garcon · 15 Feb 2006, 11:34 (Ref:1523303)

One step at a time I think. If the cost cutting measures work over the next few years, leading to genuine interest from more prospective teams, I think the 12 team maximum might be movable.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 15 Feb 2006, 11:41 (Ref:1523310)

Looking around the websites of F1 circuits, very few of them give information regarding what pit facilities they have.

Draven · 15 Feb 2006, 11:44 (Ref:1523313)

It's a fair point that this is probably more about Max putting the unsigned teams under pressure. The 12 team deal is one of my pet peeves so this suggestion by him relly pushed my buttons. Lets hope it's just being used as leverage.

Halsey · 15 Feb 2006, 12:09 (Ref:1523331)

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned somewhere that the Albert Park circuit pit facilities would struggle with more than even ten or eleven teams, I think? I don't have any actual evidence of that, but I know it's been mentioned somewhere, and I'm pretty sure it also went on to say that an extension to the pits would be out of the question.

Does this mean we'll possibly be seeing the GP return to Adelaide in the future?

marcel82 · 15 Feb 2006, 12:32 (Ref:1523361)

pit allocation to little for 12+ teams?
didn't F1 have lots more teams in the early nineties?

apart from Monaco and Melbourne Park, I can't see which tracks would not be able to hold more than 12 teams in the pits

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 15 Feb 2006, 13:08 (Ref:1523386)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcel82

pit allocation to little for 12+ teams?
didn't F1 have lots more teams in the early nineties?

apart from Monaco and Melbourne Park, I can't see which tracks would not be able to hold more than 12 teams in the pits

As it turns out Spa can't currently handle an 11th team in the F1 pit area let alone more than 12.

I have no facts to go with this, but I wouldn't imagine that Montreal would be expandable given that it's on a fixed piece of land on a manmade island.

pink69 · 15 Feb 2006, 17:04 (Ref:1523530)

Spa does have the other section of pitlane which F1 doesn't use so could, in theory, cater for more teams, but then they'd have to use the full pitlane, rather than cutting back out again just after turn one.

Suze · 15 Feb 2006, 17:09 (Ref:1523537)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

As it turns out Spa can't currently handle an 11th team in the F1 pit area let alone more than 12.

I have no facts to go with this, but I wouldn't imagine that Montreal would be expandable given that it's on a fixed piece of land on a manmade island.

it's called reclaimation, like the dutch did

all in a good cause of course.

how many garages are there now?

marcel82 · 15 Feb 2006, 17:30 (Ref:1523550)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

As it turns out Spa can't currently handle an 11th team in the F1 pit area let alone more than 12.

that's odd. in 2000 there were 11 teams, and Spa could handle them all in their F1 pits. I have no recollection of a pit box being removed, so what's the problem?

nickyf1 · 15 Feb 2006, 17:39 (Ref:1523554)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pink69

but then they'd have to use the full pitlane, rather than cutting back out again just after turn one.

Do they not use that for the spa 24 hous, that always has a big grid or the WTCC races?

safc_fan89 · 15 Feb 2006, 19:06 (Ref:1523639)

It's disappointing that at the most there will be 12 teams, because I had thought one of the ideas to improve F1 was to have MORE teams. One extra, or even no extra, is not good. It would seem a bit odd if A1GP and/or GP2 have more competitors than the supposed pinnacle of motorsport.

Mekola · 15 Feb 2006, 19:49 (Ref:1523674)

The following circuits had enough space when Formula 1 used to have more than 30 cars: Imola, Interlagos, Hockenheim, Hungaroring, Magny-Cours, Montecarlo, Montmeló, Montreal, Monza, Silverstone, Spa.
I think the plot idea to force rebel teams to sign 2008 CA is verosimile.

Mekola · 15 Feb 2006, 19:51 (Ref:1523676)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcel82

that's odd. in 2000 there were 11 teams, and Spa could handle them all in their F1 pits. I have no recollection of a pit box being removed, so what's the problem?

And in 1994 they didn't have any problems to handle 14 teams in their F1 pits.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 15 Feb 2006, 22:55 (Ref:1523872)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcel82

that's odd. in 2000 there were 11 teams, and Spa could handle them all in their F1 pits. I have no recollection of a pit box being removed, so what's the problem?

The entry to the pit lane has changed since then, it used to be a straight in entry missing out the Bus Stop.
The F1 section of the Pit lane is now shorter as it's entry is now part way through the bus stop.

1981-2001
Current Layout

Silk Cut Jaguar · 16 Feb 2006, 00:01 (Ref:1523922)

Pitboxes might be only half of the problem, it might be a question of space in the paddock aswell. Which is something the older European tracks have in short supply sometimes.

With facilities like the McLaren Communications Centre and the Red Bull Energy Station the requirements for space must be higher than it ever has been in F1.

jluisfer · 16 Feb 2006, 12:16 (Ref:1524241)

I think that in our times is very dificult to make a F1 team,with the end of Tabaco advertisement and with financial problems around the word is very hard to arrange the budget to make a good and solid team.Make a team to be always the last in grid I don't think that is a good idea

**chunterer** · 16 Feb 2006, 13:24 (Ref:1524300)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jluisfer

I think that in our times is very dificult to make a F1 team,with the end of Tabaco advertisement and with financial problems around the word is very hard to arrange the budget to make a good and solid team.Make a team to be always the last in grid I don't think that is a good idea

True, but with the expected (or anticipated) slashing of running costs set to be introduced, the FIA I suspect, will have a serious amount of people submitting entries for consideration!

F1 is already known as a superb marketing tool, so if the annual sponsorship budget is vastly reduced than what it is now, and tobacco coverage also being reduced new firms will be very keen to get in on the act.

All this means that along with the proposed lowering of the entry 'bond' prospective teasm bosses will be able to find the money a lot easier and put together the resources required to set up a decent squad.

For example Prodrive, Penske (not Berger anymore!) and the likes of ART, Racing Engineering and I wouldn't be surprised if EJ and Stoddy start discussing possibilites of coming back.

However the FIA probably aren't all that confident that the manufacturers that are currently intransigent will be sticking around, so FIA may have in mind that these mooted new teams will actually end up replacing them..

DougK · 17 Feb 2006, 12:28 (Ref:1524990)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

Pitboxes might be only half of the problem, it might be a question of space in the paddock aswell. Which is something the older European tracks have in short supply sometimes.

With facilities like the McLaren Communications Centre and the Red Bull Energy Station the requirements for space must be higher than it ever has been in F1.

Isn't this part of the problem? Give them less space for each team and less facilities and it should cut costs. If there is no room they cannot physically take so much stuff , communications centres would need to be scaled back etc and costs would fall.

They have done without all this is the 80'/90's so it can be done again.

Personally I would like to see 30 car grids and if other formulas can manage with 26 cars and above F1 should be no exception.

ECW Dan Selby · 17 Feb 2006, 13:35 (Ref:1525039)

Yeh I have to admit i'm a little disappointed at this. I wouldn't mind seeing some more teams either. More teams, more racing.

Selby

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