Why do we have to limit Supercars to V8s only?

[Peter Nightingale]

Why do we have to limit SUPERCARS to V8' S only????????????

[Just Do It!]

Parity and cost containment and equality and a sound and spectacle that the fans seem to want

[Peter Nightingale]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

Parity and cost containment and equality and a sound and spectacle that the fans seem to want

What cost containment and what equality ??????

[Chucky]

Cost containment means it only costs you a couple of mil to run a car in a major national championship.

Equality means the cars are so alike that they can't even waddle past each other.

And your point is?!?

[storyline]

Why do we have to limit SUPERCARS to V8' S only????????????

Because the organisers of this series are aware that if they allow ANY other make/model/engine configurat on into the series they would be embarrassed to hell trying to explain why these 'Supercars' could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars.

(Not to mention Ford and Holden don't want to be seen competing with anyone else).

[Peter Nightingale]

Originally Posted by storyline

Because the organisers of this series are aware that if they allow ANY other make/model/engine configurat on into the series they would be embarrassed to hell trying to explain why these 'Supercars' could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars.

(Not to mention Ford and Holden don't want to be seen competing with anyone else).

You are very correct in what you are saying...

[Conrod Kieron]

I don't agree.

Its a little more complex than a simple Ford/Hplden don't want to be seen to be beaten by smaller cars (which in itself is highly debatable).

Its stems back to the demise of Euro Group A at the beginning of the 90's. Like it or not, Aussie race fans want to see Ford vs Holden first and foremost, and they are typically into the big bangers, quite different to say UK fans, who are bought up on smaller cars.

So, whats now called V8Supercars was dreamt up and became quite succesful as its exactly what the punters wanted.

Ford/Holden see V8SC's as a big marketing excercise, that have both invested big $$'s into it for something like 14 years. Why would they want another manufacturer into it who havn't put in the ground work?
It would be stupidity!!!

[Sultan]

When GP A ended there were actually 2 other manufacturers who wanted to still be involved in Touring car racing - Nissan & BMW. The way they got the boot without discussion was pretty pitiful.

[WebberForWDC]

But could BMW perhaps have prodvided a suitable car of suitable size and eight cylinder engine, for further wrangling on finer points of regulations, concern about australian manufactured only rules etc, if consulted?

[monaroCountry]

[quote]Because the organisers of this series are aware that if they allow ANY other make/model/engine configurat on into the series they would be embarrassed to hell trying to explain why these 'Supercars' could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars.[quote]

Parity exists in all forms of motorsport. For example formula one and their limitation on engine capacity, non turbo, same weight, auro etc.

Having many makes and models running in a series make it very difficult to contol, with some cars having huge advantage in one area over another. In the case of Nissan their 4wd and forced induction system.

The GTR and what happened to it is very similar to the 427 monaro and their domination on the mountain over porsche, ferrari and moslers. Look at the opposition to the monaro, simply put the monaro (although still within the rules) had a huge advantage with top drivers, top pit crew, huge budget and 7L.

[Just Do It!]

But it wasnt really within the rules as it was never put into production

[monaroCountry]

But it wasnt really within the rules as it was never put into production

Yes it did. Nations cup was never production based. One of the reason why the V8 BMW made it up the mountain.

Having a production based class is another form of parity, basically restricting manufacturers involved, with (in most cases)the biggest and most known manufacturers most likely to be involved.

[D.R.T.]

It was production based up untill the Monaro. From then on, the flood gates opened.

[monaroCountry]

It was production based up untill the Monaro. From then on, the flood gates opened.

So the monaro was indeed OKed to race and was within the CURRENT rules.

Again its similar to the GTR, it was RWD or even FWD up until the GTR with its 4WD.

[D.R.T.]

It was OK'd to race and effectively killed the rules. There were no rules/regualtions after that point.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by storyline

Because the organisers of this series are aware that if they allow ANY other make/model/engine configurat on into the series they would be embarrassed to hell trying to explain why these 'Supercars' could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars.

(Not to mention Ford and Holden don't want to be seen competing with anyone else).

Quite correct. In the early '90s it was intended that there would be two classes competing, on equal terms. British 2-litre (later known as Super Touring) and Aussie 5-litre. The British rules were to be copied to the letter and it was intended to spec the 5-litre cars in such a way as to make them level with the 2-litre cars in lap times.

Ford and Holden, quickly put up a huge protest and didn't want to see this happen as they believed that many of the 2-litre cars would be models that are much cheaper and less highly regarded in the market place than Falcons and Commodres and it would be bad for their image to be beaten by "lesser cars". So, we ended up with a set of specs that ensured the 5-litre cars would be signifcantly quicker. Ironically, Australian Super Touring ended up being dominated by prestige models, not the bread and butter brands that Ford and Holden were worried about.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Peter Nightingale

Why do we have to limit SUPERCARS to V8' S only????????????

Because the bills are paid by Holden & Ford - see the level of external sponsorship - why would Holden & Ford want another entrant ( one for the ACCC with its increased funding, looking for scalps).

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Conrod Kieron

Aussie race fans want to see Ford vs Holden first and foremost, and they are typically into the big bangers, quite different to say UK fans, who are bought up on smaller cars.

Only fairly recently, though. Touring cars used to be Rover SD (V8), BMW 635CSi (straight 6[?]), Volvo 240 Turbo, and then those awesome Jaguar XJs. BMW killed that with the M3 which was effectively a purpose built racecar and then Ford finished the job with the Sierra Cosworth. At a time when touring cars were ceasing to exist in Europe Britain created Super Touring for those fiddly 2 litres, but most people up here who remember the old ETCC would rather have big bangers back, which is why we have this sneaking envy of the V8s.

[peckstar]

i think the real answer is because everything else is a pansys car.

People who drive pansys cars say "see my car is a v8 beater"

people who drive v8s say "my v8 is fater than your v8." thats dont say my car is faster than a buzz box witha hairdryer, because they dont need to compete against the inferior cars

v8s are the best and they know it, everything else is trying to compete

why do we limit F1 to v8's why do we limit champ cars and irl to v8. why are most of the top drag cars v8's. the answer because they are the best

now what sort of car do you drive peter? milk container, Oj container or something similar?

[D.R.T.]

Yeah thats it, Peckstar

Originally Posted by peckstar

v8s are the best and they know it, everything else is trying to compete

why do we limit F1 to v8's why do we limit champ cars and irl to v8. why are most of the top drag cars v8's. the answer because they are the best

Didnt F1 restrict the cars to V8's, because V10s were too fast. To slow them down they gave them V8s.

[Dobbo89]

i personally dislike "dumbing" cars down, so to speak, i myself would of banned 4WD, where would cars like the WRX and EVO be with out it, and if you want ford and holden, the falcon tractor motor that is the 4lt straight six loves a good turbo, and the GM turbo'ed buick 3.8 V6 motor has proved its worth in the GNX and the 20th anniversary trans-am To me group A had its merits, sort the men from the boys, who wants to spend a buck?

[Robert Ryan]

Because the organisers of this series are aware that if they allow ANY other make/model/engine configurat on into the series they would be embarrassed to hell trying to explain why these 'Supercars' could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars.

So if that is the regulations ,that is the cars you race. Totally Illogical Storyline.
ALL FIAGT, WTCC , DTM cars , would be embarrassed and could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars. by a F1 or Champcar So what does that prove? They were not built to be built for openwheel racing, but for the specific formula they are competing in.

[Robert Ryan]

Didnt F1 restrict the cars to V8's, because V10s were too fast. To slow them down they gave them V8s

D.R.T. in Top/Fuel Drag Racing it is the other way round. In fact a V10 Top Fuel engine would mostly probably detonate.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

So if that is the regulations ,that is the cars you race. Totally Illogical Storyline.
ALL FIAGT, WTCC , DTM cars , would be embarrassed and could get blown out of the weeds by smaller engined cars. by a F1 or Champcar So what does that prove? They were not built to be built for openwheel racing, but for the specific formula they are competing in.

Comparing touring cars to F1... now that's illogical!

I'd agree with the "what Holden & Ford want" theory and also that they expected the category would attract more fans with the traditional V8 rivalry than it turned away by excluding other cars

[Robert Ryan]

I'd agree with the "what Holden & Ford want" theory and also that they expected the category would attract more fans with the traditional V8 rivalry than it turned away by excluding other cars

That is the core value of the catergory.

Comparing touring cars to F1... now that's illogical!

About as Logical as the original statement. If you have a set of rules you build cars to that set of rules. Iftwould as silly as someone saying "Well my Lotus Exige can blow any HQ roadracer into the weeds!!!" A true statement, unfortunately it would not be racing against them as it does not fit the rules for the class.