Mass Dampers (merged)

[Adam43]

The mass dampers aimed at reducing the low frequency tyre bouncing has been banned by the FIA.

Most teams seem to run this, although Renault has had it the longest (I think).

It was an interesting system, but the mass involved wasn't securely fixed and this has deemed to be outside the regs.

I wonder which circuits this will have the most effect on and whether it will make much difference to the relative pace of the teams. I don't think we'll see anything dramatic, but perhaps the odd team will struggle with the set-up somewhere.

[Knowlesy]

Banned with instant effect as well I believe?

This may well impact on the destiny of the championship this year, depending on who suffers most from the removal of them.

To me it is no big deal, another piece of technology that has little impact on the overall game from my viewpoint. So it's hardly saddening to see them outlawed.

[zac510]

As the 'discovery' of these things centred around Renault, we can safely assume that they were the first to successfully use it.

What we don't know is whether they designed their car around it and even pre-season tested with it. If so then they might stand to lose a lot, changing their setup procedures to run without it.

Other teams mightn't suffer as much if they have been using them for one or two races.

[Jimisaracer]

Could cause some serious issues, if the whole car has been developed with them, the removal could cause the car to drive very oddly! If Renault have been developing the car with them then it could affect them worst. They have long been said to have the best rear end grip and most stable car (see tyre warming slides that Alonso can do).

Be interesting to see what happens!

[williamsf1]

anyone got pics of these?

[Splatz the Cow]

I don't know what they do but I am interested to find out.

I reckon a team using some trick technology would have a plan B just in case.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Autosport.com

Mass dampers are simple mechanical devices that comprise of a weight, believed to be around 9kg, mounted in a spring. They improve a car's performance by dampening out tyre bouncing frequencies throughout corners and therefore keeping grip levels more consistent.

Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow

I reckon a team using some trick technology would have a plan B just in case.

Yes, that is usually the case Splatz.

[ss_collins]

Autosprint ran pics a while ago

[Gt_R]

I first noticed this system when i read some technical updates of the Renault earlier this season, and as usual, i thought it is smart of the engineers. You really have to hand it to them for coming up with means to solve/improve fundamental problems.

I was quite surprised though to hear that Ferrari and Red Bull have recently developed and used this system. Though in early phase, their system probably doesn't work as well as Renault's, i think it would have partially explained Ferrari's improved handling, notably at Magny's final chicane.

Too bad it's banned, and perhaps it may shuffle the balance among the top teams, and allow teams such as Mclaren/Toyota who are not noted to use this system to close up.

[Adam43]

Autosport mentioned that McLaren had recently developed a version of this.

As you say each team will achieve different levels of performance from it. Autosport also suggest that it aids the Michelin runners more than the Bridgestone runners.

[Gt_R]

thanks for that update! Well, in any case, it's an interesting solution which unfortunately see a quick death. It may be pointless to TV viewers, but still it's interesting to follow for others who are intrigued by such information.

Given it's pinnacle of motorsports tag, and how F1 cars are supposedly the quickest (not outright in pure speed, but ONLY over 1.5hrs on a race circuit) despite all the restrictions, it's really interesting to think how cars would be if all gloves are off the technical regulations.

Perhaps, we won't even notice a shuffle between the teams come Germany.

[gfm]

Whacking over kurbs will be more hazardous without them., I think. That where tyre bounce and wobble is at it's maximum. That's all the teams are tyring to do; ride the kurbs more effectively.

[Marbot]

Err....so much for the 'Hi-Tech' bit. http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17166.html

Nothing new under the Sun.

[rocketracer]

"The concept was first used in the the Citroen 2CV in the late 1940s and was designed to reduce wheel patter, vertical oscillation of the wheels caused by the tyres. More recently, however, the same basic concept has been used in architectural design to reduce resonance created by wind or earthquakes."


isnt it great to see F1 take design cues from the "dynamic" world of architecture...

[rocketracer]

seriously though, does anyone know where these mass dampers are most effective? with brazil being the most bumpy track surface, are the dampers designed to minimise fast oscillations from bumpy track surface or are they more suited to the big vibrations which occur (especially nice to see them in slow mo) when throwing the car over the kerbs? or both?

all in all, seems a little overly prudent by the FIA to ban them at this stage of the season which you would think would have a significant affect on the result of the championship....

[jnr blue 91]

yes but wouldnt this now contradict with health and safety.all the judding and jarring along the spinal cords???

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

all in all, seems a little overly prudent by the FIA to ban them at this stage of the season which you would think would have a significant affect on the result of the championship....

It's a conspiracy don't ya know.

Ferrari win WDC and possibly WCC.Bridgestone get control tyre contract at a price.Easy innit.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by jnr blue 91

yes but wouldnt this now contradict with health and safety.all the judding and jarring along the spinal cords???

Some sort of seat cushion might be in order.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

"The concept was first used in the the Citroen 2CV in the late 1940s and was designed to reduce wheel patter, vertical oscillation of the wheels caused by the tyres."

This could affect Renault quite badly,as no doubt the 2CV was running on Michelins at the time.

[gfm]

Rocket - primary ride, uneven road surface wouldn't be effected by these shockers. Secondary ride, surface jarring/jolting would be affected and it's the secondary ride over curbing where they were try reduce the bounce and wobble of the tyre.
Sounds something that a bra-manufacturer would be interested in.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

More recently, however, the same basic concept has been used in architectural design ............"

isnt it great to see F1 take design cues from the "dynamic" world of architecture...

Engine by Renault, suspension by Lord Rogers. A team spokeperson said. "They look really nice don't they?"

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by gfm

Rocket - primary ride, uneven road surface wouldn't be effected by these shockers. Secondary ride, surface jarring/jolting would be affected and it's the secondary ride over curbing where they were try reduce the bounce and wobble of the tyre.
Sounds something that a bra-manufacturer would be interested in.

thanks mate, good to know these things! I'll let you know if i can manage to fit the 2CV suspension into a double D...

Originally Posted by Peter Mallet

Engine by Renault, suspension by Lord Rogers. A team spokeperson said. "They look really nice don't they?"

the team spokesperson was also heard to go on and say - "... but my wife was still unhappy we didnt choose the sandstone...

[manwell]

If a part of the car is outside te FIA rules, then doesnt that make it illegal? And if so, who decides when something is illegal and you just have to stop using it, or if something is illegal and you lose points and get banned for it?
Why did Honda get a 2 race ban last year for having a different interpretation to the FIA rules, but when Ferrari and Renault have a different interpretation to the FIA rules they just get asked to stop using the new style dampers.

[shiny side up!]

New technologies that do not fall blatantly afoul of the technical regs are often subject to interpretation, not always timely, but the FIA. Sometimes, like with the mass damping system, the FIA aren't quite sure what to make of it when they first see it... there is nothing it is CLEARLY violating, but there may be a couple of rules you could consider it in the gray area for.

For example, flexi-wings... the FIA realize that it is nigh-on impossible to build a structure of the dimensions and materials of an F1 wing and have absolutely no flex... and as the FIA increasingly saw more and more flex that looked like it may be occurring on purpose, they started ramping up the load test on wings. It has actually been going on for a couple of years ( both the flexi-wings and the increasing FIA load tests ), but it came to a head this year with even more creative designs evolving and more vocal opposition from teams ( leading to increased media interest ).

As for the BAR technical disqualification... the FIA decided that what they were doing was a blatant move to try to circumvent the rules. It was obvious that the fuel system would have allowed the car to run below minimum weight for short periods of time, and it just so happened that the team was also enjoying an increase in pace and race form... pretty much a perfect storm for a DQ. Add to that the fact that when asked to empty the fuel system they chose not to empty the part of it that was in question, and things looked MIGHTY sketchy...

On to the mass damping, I think sometimes the FIA wait to watch new technologies to see how they evolve before deciding if they WANT to make it illegal... not in any sort of 'conspiracy theory' type of way, but if Jo Bauer sees a new technology evolving into something that is going to be difficult for his technical team to keep up with and police, and there is an interpretation of the rules that could be used to outlaw the technology, they act.

[freud]

This is a bad decision for renault chassis. Its well-known in the f1 paddock that renault success is largely attributed to its excellent chassis and handling of the car on kerbs.

Watch out Alonso! The FIA wants someone else to be champ this year..