Bourdais

[neilap]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/55628

I have always hoped to see him in F1. In some ways maybe F1 is not the best suited for him. Sebas has some things that many wish Jenson Button did. Both drivers are very fast and smooth but Sebas has the ruthlessness of a man that refuses to lose. I feel his talent is being wasted in a Champ cars. The competition is just a fraction of what it was.

[spider]

It is certainly a shame, but he's got a very good life out there and why waste that to come over and muck about with a midfield team. Glad you mentioned the ruthless part, as that is apart of his armoury i particularly admire - I certainly would prefer him in my car than someone like Rosberg or someone such as Ralf or Trulli who have shown their potential, or the limits of it.

He's a European lad and was fast in his only Arrows test and can adapt to different machinery. Bit odd how no-one will even test him. But it shows the way F1 is set in its ways. On a Tragi-comic note, his best bet if he wanted F1 more than anything would be to try and strike a deal with ART and go for a win or bust attempt at GP2, but that a) won't happen and b) would be ridiculous.

[Jordi]

It's ridiculous how a season of GP2 can do you more good than 3 Champ Car titles. They saw Zanardi having difficulty in 1999 and they all chickened out.

Da Matta at Toyota... I reckon he'd do an equal job to Trulli or Ralf, but he's from Champ Car, scrap him. BS.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

I think Da Matta under performing killed any chance of F1 for Bourdais. Christiano (and it wasn't all his fault) really soured the waters for team bosses looking towards Champ Car for new talent.

It's a real shame Bourdais will probably never get the top line drive he deserves in F1 but that's life. At least he's earning a hell of a living racing in the States, which can't be said for a lot of talented drivers these days who struggle for funding.

I do admire how he's stuck to his guns and hasn't accepted a testing role with no guarantee of a race seat.

[Marbot]

Definitely feel sorry for the guy,and Justin Wilson too!

There are drivers currently in F1 who just don't come anywhere near these two.

[BootsOntheSide]

I'm not really sure ChampCar has a 'weak' field anymore. There are 3 F3000 champions in competitive teams, as well as promising talents like Power, Clarke and until recently Allmendinger. 2007 should be even stronger. It's a pity that nobody has taken a chance on either Seb or Justin, considering that both have circuit experience, and that so many other hyped rookies have struggled for consistancy in recent years. Neither of them are too old to have 10 strong years in F1.

[v10cla]

The problem with F1 these days is even a very talented driver will not get a chance, if he is not considered to be commercially viable......believe me.

As for the Champ car route, even if successful in Champ car, a driver may still fail in F1, which is a risk teams do not wish to take.
Having said that, Mr Bourdais is one of the most talented drivers never to be given a fair 'crack of the whip'...............surely someone must give him a chance?

[nkh]

Could Sebastian himself have too high demands?

a top car? - It's a bit strange that Williams will have Wurtz and Rosberg for 2007, and Frank has been looking at champ car drivers before.

long term? - McLaren would probably be better off with Sebastian than Pedro and Lewis would get a year of testing and time to learn the tracks. But Ron would probably like to have Lewis in the car in 2008, so it could only be for one year.

[Gt_R]

I feel sorry for him definitely.

Yes, it may be a risk, but taking Kimi on board was a risk also. I'm sure that by running him in some tests would give teams a rough gauge on how well he would perform.

That said, i think he has to accept that having won what he could at Champcars, making a switch to F1, even to test for a season, could work. Afterall, he would still compete in LeMans, and testing would give him a good idea of learning circuits and knowing the car. But he seem more keen to just jump into F1 and race, which is really impossible, more so with a top team.

Maybe he could scout around at Red Bull, Williams or Toyota for a start. Lower his expectations and think longer term, teams arent going to just sign him up without knowing for sure that he would deliver.

[rocketracer]

I think the biggest hurdle to overcome is the technical development. This, i think is much easier to do from F1 to champcar, rather than the other way around (as champcar works with a static chassis - so a drivers role is confined to getting in, setting up the car and driving fast). It's a nice and clean role.

F1 has a much more technical aspect to it. There are hundreds of variables which require understanding before the guy can drive the car quickly. A driver with a long experience in F1 (either testing or racing) will find subtle potentials to push the car faster. To understand where the potential lies in the car and to push that. I think this is much harder to do when coming from a ready made champcar. The subtle potentials get lost in the change of machinery.

i think the context and driver's role in GP2 / junior F1 team is much more relevant, and indicative of potential success in a top F1 team.

Not saying that no champ car driver could do it, but i wouldnt expect anyone, including bordais to be a better option than the current pool hanging around F1's ranks at the moment.

Besides it would be a backward step for Bourdais' career in terms of both salary and driving role, so he's probably best contenting himself with his current success and leaving F1 as a hypothetical.....

[JohnSSC]

rocketracer, has I think, hit the nail on the head. I will give some creedance though to CDM having screwed the pooch as far as CC drivers coming to F1. He may well be the last - and I would agree that his "failure" in F1 was as much or more Toyota than CDM.

ChampCar does indeed have some talented drivers but the series is very much a spec series: same chassis, engine and tires for all the teams. You can say the same about GP2, but the perception seems to be that it is more of a true stepping-stone to F1 since the races are on F1-type tracks.

With CC competing on your average dreary street course (i.e. San Jose) there is no context for the F1 team managers to compare and contrast. I mean, so what if Driver X is fast at Edmonton? Does that mean he/she can handle Spa or Imola? With GP2 they can at least go out and see and make direct comparisons.

Like a lot of unemployed potential F1 drivers, Bourdais has the goods, but he is all dressed up with nowhere to go. Right now he has a race seat and gets paid to occupy it. Many are the advantages of having steady employment!

[Nado]

The problem is Bourdais apparently isn't willing to accept a midfield seat. Sure he may have proved himself in ChampCars, but so have other drivers in Europe, they've stayed, fought it tough and then accept a seat at a backmarker like Trulli, Fischella, Webber to get into F1. Also look at Heidfeld who spent a year incomeless at Jordan just to stay in F1. Not many drivers get a free ride at the top like Montoya and Button, or the new kids Rosberg (F1 family) or Lewis (signed up at a young age). Wurz? Well he stayed in F1, spent years testing instead of going to the US and go for ChampCar glory. I think he deserves the Williams drive. Even Michael started a midfield Jordan (?). Alonso at Minardi.

[BootsOntheSide]

I'm not sure Wurz ever had a serious opportunity to go to ChampCar, but other than that I think Nado and rocketracer have made some good points. A year's testing for Bourdais would be a real gamble, and it would only need some up-and-coming driver to do really well in GP2 for him to lose the chance of getting a race seat.

[rblanshard]

As stupid as this sounds, someone on TV made the comment that F1 teams were avoiding Sebastian because he wears glasses. Is there any possibility of this or was this guy just reaching for something to talk about?

[chunterer]

Well that would be typical tv led bs if true!

Over time there's been a fair few bespectacled drivers, good ones too.

Some just elected to wear contact lenses instead...

Bourdais is right not to drive in F1 at any cost, any self respecting driver ought to think along the same lines.

Why give up enjoying yourself as a leading light for a poor seat in an overblown series where you can'[t really prove what you can do anymore unless you've either got a/ a fantastic car, or b/ a rubbish teammate!

[Mr V]

It's a shame for him. Trouble is, imo, whilst he is obviously a good driver, we don't really know how good due to (imo) the series being the weakest it ever has been in it's history.

[climb]

Originally Posted by Jordi

It's ridiculous how a season of GP2 can do you more good than 3 Champ Car titles...

You still think at CC as it was in the 90's, seemingly.

Just consider the series' respectives conditions:

-CC's: the cars are very old, the competition is frankly poor, both from talent and finance point of view, several tracks are out of touch, tho able to attract a good local audience

GP2: latest generation cars, more similar to F1, running on the very same track/weekend, right under F1 team managers'eyes, seeing a grid filled with very promising (and well funded) talents, granting a good spectacle to give drivers a valuable spotlight.

Under these circumstances , how could things be different?

[spider]

the difference between Seb and the likes of CDM is that he ran very strongly in Europe in F3000 (2nd on road and 1st after a certain situation) and knows all the European venues. In all honesty i fail to see how the driving standard in Champ Cars was all that special in the mid to late 90s either, if i'm honest.

Ok, readying to duck for cover, talented drivers who have raced in Europe have ran well over in CC/IRL for the last 10 years - Zanardi, JPM, Wheldon, Seb, De Ferran, even drivers who hardly shone in Europe were race winners over there. Now I love CC and went to Rockingham and Brands when it came to these shores, but with Justin Wilson, AJ, Tracy and Junky being bettered by Seb, i don't see the standard of those being any worse than the field in the 90s.

I don't look at the field in CC in the late 90s with any real awe, it was just bulkier in numbers. That's my hugely unpopular opinion, but my point is, I feel the fact he has won 3 back to back titles, has run in a contemporary F1 car very strongly, won the F3000 title and is strong in anything he races in, i am surprised he has been overlooked.

I did laugh at that specs comment...!

[climb]

well, the profile of a CC winer cannot be analysed only examinating drivers' talent, which is nonetheless important (and you still have to convice me that Tagliani and Wilson are as good as Villeneuve and Montoya), but also considering the whole package offered by that series.

For instance, having prime teams helps alot.
Now can you compare the two situations and say they're similar?
Only Newman-Haas remain of a very competitive field (Penske Ganassi etc), most of the current teams are on a less-than-F3 level.

This situation is bound to downsize the rating of driver like Sebk he's fast and ruthless, but he runs for the only really good team in CC, and winning 3 titles in-a-row tends to show the poorness of the field, more than the goodness of Seb.

Moreover, not only Seb has been snubbed by F1 actually:the whole championship has been forgotten (after Da Matta, none has been recruited by aan F1 team).
Some years ago things were different.

[Andrew Kitson]

Seb has a very good manager in David Sears who has put several drivers into F1 including JPM. He had a good deal on the table as 3rd driver for BMW however Seb himself turned it down as he wanted a race seat. Personally I think he should have gone for it. Afterall, look at Wurz, de la Rosa and Davidson now amongst others. What more does he have to prove in the US? As many have shown you can always go back to CART but generally get one crack at getting in F1.

[f1manoz]

Years ago, Sebas would have been snapped up after his first or second titles. But because of the apparent lack of competition in the ChampCar series nowadays, no-one is willing to take that risk.

There is no doubting that Bourdais is a very talented driver, but he's a forgotten man nowadays.

[mountainstar]

I don't buy all this stuff about this series or that series. A select few are what i call A level drivers. If you stand trackside and watch bourdais, the guy is perfect lap after lap. Braking points, turn in, apex, exit is all this same lap after lap. He is like senna, prost, schumacher, etc. he can see and analyse far beyond what most drivers are capable of.

Montoya, Tracy and others are what I call B level drivers. They can turn it on sometimes but are inconsistent which is why they don't win multiple championships. They are talented, but don't have the full tote of weapons in their armory like the A level guys.

Then you have the C level. This is were most of the professional level drivers are. They can get a car around the track but are not top drawer and probably never will be.

F1 I find is very fadish and eliteist. 2/3 guys in F1 driving are there because they are the latest touted name from autosport, have been pimped out by a good manager or are a certain nationality, or are there due to a sponsor. Most drivers are not in F1 solely by merit, because the field would look much different if it was.

Saying that because da matta and montoya came to F1 and ultimately failed, that somehow implicates champcar is foolish. F3000 and GP2 so far have a **** poor record of producing F1 race winners don't they?

Bourdais would do just fine in F1.

[neilap]

I dont think that the quality of racers in Champ cars is so poor that SB can be discredited. Also, he has not only raced in Champcars. Every car I have ever seen him drive he has been fast. I see no reason he would not adapt to F1.

DaMatta won the series when Toyota was pretty much running the series. He was good and I feel was good enough for F1. Toyota killed him off with a poor and poor upgrades.

[chunterer]

Agree neilap. CDM did a relatively soild job and was let down by equipment. I just can't see how he'd do a lesser job than the current Toyota drivers, but the big wigs within that team organisation clearly felt otherwise?!

Montoya can't really be considered a 'b grader mountainstar. This guy proved he could win races and race with the best in everything he's competed in so far. Ultimately he only had 2 outright top cars in his 5 and a half years in it ('03, '05) and then got fed up with it. But yes ultimately no F1 title which may or may not have been his own fault!

Bourdais face doesn't fit and if team bosses aren't prepared to take a bit of a flyer on him then how will he get a drive?

[climb]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

... F3000 and GP2 so far have a **** poor record of producing F1 race winners don't they?

Right to blame it on F3000, but Gp2 cannot be accused since it's a quasi newborn series.