Chequebook Racers, your thoughts?

[rcarr]

I have raced against a few chequebook racers in my time racing.

Novice crosses on the back of Porsches, Ferraris etc.

These people buy vastly expensive racing cars or create them from mediocre road cars and race them in club races and can't drive them properly, ie brake at 200 yards before a corner, when experienced drivers brake at 75 yards or they hammer everyone in the field but as soon as an experienced racing driver gives them a challenge, they bin their beautifully prepared car into the gravel.

One example I have seen racing, the guy bought an ex-Le Mans GT2 Porsche, capable of hammering everyone in the field, it did in the hands of the previous owner. The new owner was interviewed by the commentator during the lunch break. He was asked, being a novice could he handle the power of this out and out race car, he answered, I own quicker road cars than this 1 so I am fine with the power! That race he came stone last agains Escorts, Sierras, Caterhams etc.

The same guy, 2 seasons later is still only dicing with Caterhams in the mid-field.

Your thoughts on these chequebook races, please...

[Stephen Green]

Whilst they may take away the purist racing, I believe the sport still needs people who have the cash to go racing, as they often make up the numbers on what would otherwise be a small grid. The more entries for your series the lower the cost to you, well in theory at least.

I would qualify my statement by saying that I do believe they should be able to run within a certain percentage of the lead drivers times, but then in Historic racing you often see very slow people on track because it is their car, and spectators have come purely to see the car racing, not the driver.

If I were a driver and had to contend with overtaking slower traffic, that wouldn't bother me a great deal. It would be the slower drivers driving skills and perception of track etiquette that would matter more to me

[JohnMiller]

Don't really understand the point.

He doesn't seem to have claimed to be fast, just safe.

He must be enjoying himself if he's still doing it a couple of years later.

Who is being harmed by him?

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I would qualify my statement by saying that I do believe they should be able to run within a certain percentage of the lead drivers times

But (as you do say) that would exclude those of us, not just in historic racing, peddling slow cars as fast as they will go.

I always enjoy overtaking cars costing 5 or 10 the price of mine

[Stephen Green]

Obviously that would not apply if you were in a race with several classes, some noticeably faster than the others.

[rcarr]

I am being harmed by his car because he is still beating our cars now n again and also he is wasting his car!

All (modern)racing cars should be driven as hard as possible!

I passed a Ferrari 360 Challenge car in my Fiesta!

What has happened to the "proper" racing drivers? The stalwarts of club racing are being emotionally discouraged by these big powerful cars.

Our sports and saloons in Scotland, you need to spend in excess of £30k to win a race nowadays! Its CLUB RACING for goodness sake!

I know of a family who bought to very famous set of historic cars, for him and his son. He couldn't drive his car and his son was driving a very fast Lotus formula car and still was beaten by Sprites and standard MGBs and came stone last.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Our sports and saloons in Scotland, you need to spend in excess of £30k to win a race nowadays!

But not to beat an LM Porsche, according to your post above.

You're right, it's outrageous. It should be illegal to have a car quicker than you are or want to be, NOT.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Obviously that would not apply if you were in a race with several classes, some noticeably faster than the others.

It's not even classes - I'm miles away from the lap records in class because my car is so under-developed (because I can't develop it as I race in a one make series).

The more out there the better - the most enjoyable races of the year are things like the 8 Clubs where you get to race against a full grid of cars; some fast, some slow; some driven hard; some not so hard.

[Tim Falce]

I think there are two or three arguments to this subject. On the one hand if he has an ex LM GT2 car, what the heck is he doing racing against XR2s and Caterhams, and why does your series allow this type of car in, would you let an F1 car race with you if the owner was rich enough? There are plenty of series about that would welcome him.

The second point is that if you only want talented people racing, I think you would lose 90% of the grids, I'd be out for starters, it's club racing not high end GT racing.

Thirdly, maybe he doesn't want to bend his expensive P&J so takes it a bit easy, there is a guy in our series that has a car that could out perform a lot of the others but he is always mid field mainly because it is immaculate and he looks after it. He is happy and it makes no difference to the rest of us.

[rcarr]

Falcemob, I completely agree with you about "why is he racing a GT2 against caterhams and xr2 etc" maybe they should make them race with restrictors or ban turbochargers?

Ron Cumming used to race his Footwork F1 car against Formula Fords, Sports 2000s, Formula Vauxhalls etc in the Formula Libre races at Knockhill, they banned the car after a while.

They should ban novices from racing big powerful cars!

Only allow them to have 1.6 cars that produce no more than 120bhp! Thats how I learnt my trade, in a Fiesta with twin webers.

I need a car that produces 400-500bhp to win a race but I do not have the income at the moment, I would much prefer to have a car like a PRC or a Ligier to race which has just over 200bhp and beat them all!

My Dad had a very quick Tiga Sports 2000 but stupidly opted to put a Cosworth Turbo in it and it went very quickly down hill from there!

A properly prepared car worth £15k could wipe the floor clean up here! As Robert Pritchard did in the 2006 season! Caterham with 250bhp, can beat any car he wants, a proper racing driver who isn't a novice or spending a fortune on his car and is a very good driver!

[dagriff]

I remember a "Chequebook Racer" from a long time ago saying to us "I am a multi-millionaire. If I had decided to take up Golf instead of motor racing, do you think I would have bought a set of crappy second hand clubs?".
He actually got reasonably good, and turned out to be quite a nice bloke.

In every sport/hobby there are people that have more money than tallent, In my next reincarnation, I hope to be one of them.........

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Our sports and saloons in Scotland, you need to spend in excess of £30k to win a race nowadays! Its CLUB RACING for goodness sake!

Originally Posted by rcarr

A properly prepared car worth £15k could wipe the floor clean up here! As Robert Pritchard did in the 2006 season! Caterham with 250bhp, can beat any car he wants, a proper racing driver who isn't a novice or spending a fortune on his car and is a very good driver!

Make your mind up! £15,000, £30,000........

I don't think Robert is racing on a shoestring! Two cars, three BTCC-spec Vauxhall engines.......more than £15,000 invested there, I think!

He may not be a novice, but he was three or four years ago.......with the same car.

One thing I will agree with you on, though, is that Robert is a very good driver, & a really nice guy as well.

I don't think having more money, more talent, whatever, than your fellow human beings is a crime......unfortunately, it means that you will have to suffer the whines of the begrudgers. (Not that I'd know, being deficient on both counts!)

[graeme]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Ron Cumming used to race his Footwork F1 car against Formula Fords, Sports 2000s, Formula Vauxhalls etc in the Formula Libre races at Knockhill, they banned the car after a while.

So that's Formula "Free" - except for no F1 cars??? Surely not Libre any more then?

[terence]

Unfortunatly it is a very common thing in Historic racing,but getting past those people just adds to the fun,if they out qualify you on the grid ,then make it you goal to get past them,but leave the Red Mist behind in the collecting area!

[MGDavid]

The stalwarts of club racing are being emotionally discouraged by these big powerful cars.
>>>think you need to see a shrink to get your emotions under control

It occurs to me that perhaps in a small pond (north of the border) you have less stringent criteria to fill the grids. Maybe if you raced down south you could enter a series where the entry is more evenly balanced?

[GORDON STREETER]

I dont mind these guys , they make up the grid and keep a series going.
As long as they dont change lines when I go by them !

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

The stalwarts of club racing are being emotionally discouraged by these big powerful cars.
>>>think you need to see a shrink to get your emotions under control

It occurs to me that perhaps in a small pond (north of the border) you have less stringent criteria to fill the grids. Maybe if you raced down south you could enter a series where the entry is more evenly balanced?

Or maybe there is lots of vine growing fruit north-o-the border that has gone off.

[MG Racer]

Cheque book racers! I am more the credit card overdraft racer

If there are people out there willing to buy exotic expensive machinery to go racing then as long as they are safe and dont decide to change lines on you when you go past do we really care?

Without cheque book racers some of the more exotic cars probably would be gathering dust in a garage rather than being used. And they are adding cars to grids which cant be bad.

This is probably another thread to be started or one i have missed:

Something that really gets my goat is the state of some cars that people race. Some of the lower cost series have got cars which wouldn't pass an MOT let alone should be allowed through scrutineering. Do people not have any pride in trying to turn out the best prepped car they can? I am not at the front of my championship but I like the car to at least look like its looked after.

Perhaps cheque book racers could help those out in the lower cost classes to raise prep standard - Ooops I have just gone completely mad and off topic leave me in a padded cell.

[zefarelly]

I completely agree with all of that MGRacer

[GORDON STREETER]

As I said in my thread about "What makes one driver better than another".
You can buy your way halfway up the grid then you run out of talent.
It dosen't matter if you race a Trabant or a Mclaren . you will still only get to a certain standard. Its a pity that the old silhouette cars were stopped. I bet I could have made up one out of those two. Just think a 2 stroke Mclaren !!!

[TheKing]

RCARR,

After reading your posts in this thread and numerous others you have made elsewhere...you sound like a broken record! "I do it on X amount of money whilst these are doing it on Y amounts of money. Not Fair..."

Your obviously not a paid driver...the only solution is for you to get a job that pays good money, so you can afford to compete. Dont take away from people that have worked hard to earn the money that they earn. Thats part of the game...

[GORDON STREETER]

TheKing
If this is a jab at me I dont understand. I dont care What people race or how much money they spend , I enjoy my motor racing thats the main thing !

[TheKing]

Gordon,

No not at all! Yes I totally agree with your views.

My point was to RCARR

The fact is some chequebook racers are actually good drivers. They are multi-talented because they also bring in a decent income.

P.S. I am not one of these...unfortunately. However I dont have to bring them down.

[Eddy V]

No need to bring somebody else down, right Mr. King?
Or am I wrong?

[Adam43]

Good on them. Buying a fast car and going racing; Marvellous. If they get beaten by slower cars along the way, that is good too.

I can't say I have a problem with it.