|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
23 Feb 2007, 10:37 (Ref:1849772) | #1 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
|
GpA Toyotas--anyone know where they got to?
I'm trying to trace where all the GpA Toyotas went, especially the later TOMS Supras. I have got 3 of the small Corollas and looking for an "upgrade". I know 2 Supras exist here in Australia, but there were quite a few in late 80's. that raced in UK/Europe. anyone help???? even clues will be greatfully received
|
||
|
23 Feb 2007, 11:48 (Ref:1849816) | #2 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,807
|
Iteresting question and despite there being quite a lot of Grp A Corollas and Supra sbuilt I can't believe your're having such a struggle getting info on them!!
One of the MIL Shell supra Turbo's that ran in 1988 BTCC ended up in Thundersaloons with a Cosworth RS500 engine in it. Not sure where it went after that though, or what happened to the sister car? There must have been 6-7 Corollas running between 1986-89. Chris Hodgetts flogged most of his BTCC examples to your part of the world but I wonder what happened to Tony Crudgington's or Stig Gruen's? |
||
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!" |
23 Feb 2007, 20:55 (Ref:1850114) | #3 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
|
thanks, getting any sort of touring car info out of UK seems quite hard unless it is for a british built car, eg Rover, Ford. Unlike here in Australia, it seems there was no big following with lots of published promo material where historical data can now be found. We are spoiled here.
Anyhow, several blue coloured Supras raced in ETCC races in late 80's. These were MA70 models, mostly TOMS built and with various sponsors, Fujitsu & Minolta being prominent for a while. 2 of these came here after the Spa race of 1989. 1 survives and the other was reportedly stripped & crushed to avoid paying import duties. Supposedly 8 were built. Bill Hewland has confirmed that they built 10 or 12 special gearboxes for 7 or 8 cars, so that data sort of matches. I have seen fleeting glimpses of a red MA70 Supra in 1988 BTCC video, so maybe that is the Shell car you refer to. I believe 1 of the Hodgetts cars went to Hong Kong and 2 TOMS/Dowsett cars came here, 1 of which I have. There were heaps of these cars over a 8 year period so its amazing they have just disappeared. |
||
|
23 Feb 2007, 22:53 (Ref:1850185) | #4 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,404
|
Quote:
I definitely remember one of the Supras in Thundersaloons- I ought to have a photo or two somewhere. There's an interesting footnote in the story- on the 1988 Manx International Rally, Graham Middleton appeared in a red Group A MA70 Supra turbo- As I remember, it was described in Autosport's report as being one of the MIL cars modified into a rallycar- I think the report suggested it was a bit of a handful, having suspension settings that were more suited to Silverstone than the Manx lanes. I don't remember the date of the 88 Manx, (it's usually run in late August/September from memory?), but from the BTCC results I've got to hand, MIL only ran a single car in the last 2/3 BTCC rounds. If one of the BTCC cars was converted to rally-spec for the Manx, did it get converted back to a race car, or did MIL have a spare car? I certainly don't remember it making another rally appearance that year. Apart from the blue TOM'S cars, there were two other teams of MA30 Supras that appeared in Europe. RAS Sport in Belgium ran a pair of Bastos-liveried cars intermittently in ETCC/WTCC races in 1987, in both normally-aspirated and non-turbo form- they were usually both slow and unreliable http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-014.jpg they appeared again at Spa in 88, in Fina colours http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-029.jpg The other regular ETCC Supras came from the Swiss Bemani team, who ran one, sometimes two cars in the 88 ETCC http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-016.jpg I've got a feeling that at least one of the Bemani cars was still being campigned in Switzerland in the early/mid 90's- I'm sure I've seen a photo of one racing against Supertouring cars around that time Last edited by KA; 23 Feb 2007 at 22:56. |
||
|
1 Mar 2007, 09:52 (Ref:1854429) | #5 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
|
thanks, trying to follow-up these leads. so far, not much luck
|
||
|
1 Mar 2007, 12:01 (Ref:1854512) | #6 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,674
|
Quote:
I think this team was (originally) very well funded, but the problems they had soon ate into the budget! |
|||
|
2 Mar 2007, 13:31 (Ref:1855554) | #7 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
|
Why were the Supras so uncompetitive and why did they switch from turbo to non-turbo ?
|
|
|
4 Mar 2007, 13:35 (Ref:1857932) | #8 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,404
|
The Japanese TOM'S cars were always turbos, as were the MIL cars in Britain
When the RAS cars appeared in Europe in 87, I think at some point they ran one of each, a turbo and a 3-litre n/a- they certainly seemed to at Spa in 87 car 14- Joosen/Heyer/Jelinski- (turbo) http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-014.jpg car 15- Olofsson/Thibault/Bachelart (3.0i) http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-015.jpg Think the main visual difference is the rear spoiler, was this only homologated on the turbo? I've got a vague feeling that the non-turbo might have been homologated slightly before the turbo, but I'd have to look back through old Autosports etc to be sure. I don't know why Bemani ran the non-turbo version in 88, but wouldn't be surprised if after seeing the trouble RAS had with the turbo, they figured the 3-litre was the safer route.... |
|
|
4 Mar 2007, 13:39 (Ref:1857936) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,404
|
Quote:
|
||
|
4 Mar 2007, 15:37 (Ref:1857995) | #10 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,674
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
4 Mar 2007, 21:38 (Ref:1858352) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,170
|
http://www.supra-garage.de/ai0388b.htm
According to this article Bemani decided that the excessive weight of the Turbo-model, was reason enough to go for the normally aspirated version for '88. It has to be mentioned that Bemani actually debuted their first Supra during 1987. Check out the article too for the "war paint", as it's different from the white/red colour scheme of '88. Jesper |
||
|
5 Mar 2007, 09:06 (Ref:1858736) | #12 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,807
|
Yeas the 3.0 V6 was still a heavy car but there might have been some justification in thinking it would be a competitive Class 2 or B car against the Alfa 75's and BMW M3. However, history tells us that that notion (if it ever was a realisitc one) was quickly checked by the performance if the M3, a road car built for racing, which left it's class rivals which were not as highly developed for dead immediately.
|
||
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!" |
6 Mar 2007, 09:46 (Ref:1859641) | #13 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
|
they were never a V6. all straight 6, and absurdly heavy. we recently rebuilt an old a GpA Supra motor, and we had all forgotten how heavy there were to move about the shop. The mid 80's non-turbo MA61 engine/car combo was just acceptable, but once the heavier MA70 cam along, the non-turbo was just a slug. why anyone would have thought they could compete with lighter BMW 3 litre amazes me.
|
||
|
12 Mar 2007, 09:10 (Ref:1864414) | #14 | |||
Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 16
|
Quote:
Some years later, 1999, a bemani Supra appeared for one or two seasons in the Divinol-Tourenwagen-Cup. Driver was Rüdiger Näf. |
|||
|
31 Jul 2007, 08:32 (Ref:1976964) | #15 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
|
I was chatting with John Smith, last weekend and he still has his TTA Supra turbo.
|
||
|
31 Jul 2007, 10:24 (Ref:1977062) | #16 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,056
|
IIRC my late father (Gerry Marshall) raced a Corolla a few times, I think with John L and also with Geoff Kimber-Smith. I'll have to look through my programmes tonight, as I definitely remember him testing a pearlescent one and I have some pictures of a yellow and black one.
|
|
__________________
Gregor Marshall |
10 Aug 2007, 04:10 (Ref:1985257) | #17 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
|
Does anyone have any pics of Bob Holden's AE86 Sprinter racing in Australia?
|
||
|
10 Aug 2007, 06:04 (Ref:1985285) | #18 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,404
|
Quote:
|
||
|
10 Aug 2007, 06:18 (Ref:1985294) | #19 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,404
|
Quote:
|
||
|
12 Aug 2007, 12:33 (Ref:1986634) | #20 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,807
|
Think the A-B class split was changed to 3.0 litres in 1987 with advent of WTCC etc??
|
||
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!" |
12 Aug 2007, 13:20 (Ref:1986664) | #21 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,404
|
Quote:
Australia had used 2.0-3.0 litres for class B, but with the WTCC coming in 1987 adopted the European 1.6-2.5 litre standard for the class- the 87 Bathurst yearbook refers to several cars, such as some of the turbos and the Peter Williamson Supra (2.8 litres) being pushed up into the top class. The turbo equivalency factor had originally been 1.4, which combined with running an up to 3-litre Class B had enabled most of the 2-litre turbo cars (Starions, Skylines etc) to run in class B in Australia before 1987. The FIA increased the equivalency factor to 1.7 in 1988, but the class split stayed at 3-litres, keeping the Bemani Supras and a 3-litre Alfa 75 V6 fielded by CiBiEmme at Spa in the top class.... http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Pages/part5.html The BTCC altered the class A-B split to 3-litres in 1988 IIRC |
||
|
12 Aug 2007, 23:48 (Ref:1987158) | #22 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 782
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
If you want to get a hat, get a head. |
13 Aug 2007, 07:32 (Ref:1987292) | #23 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,042
|
Quote:
In 1987 for the ATCC they simplified it (perhaps too much) into simply two classes, Over 2.5L and Under 2.5L. Hence the manufacturers championship was split between Nissan and BMW, as each make won their respective class on the same amount of occasions. In addition to this we had a seperate 2 Litre ATCC (started some said as a way of keeping Toyota Australia interested in Australian Touring Car racing, which they had competed in since 1984 in Group A with an array of FWD & RWD Group A cars), which consisted mostly of Toyota Corolla's, but also of the 2 litre works Nissan Gazelle of Mark Skaife, who dominated the series. As mentioned when Bathurst came around the classes were based on the FISA WTCC rulebook, hence the Gazelle went into the same class as the BMW M3's, and Corolla's had a battle to themselves. |
|||
__________________
"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999 |
14 Aug 2007, 11:26 (Ref:1988290) | #24 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,056
|
I found this yesterday http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-photo.html
Scroll down a bit and there's a picture of the Corolla. there's also some other results for Dad and also some great pictures of the Toyota Supras on the main site. |
|
__________________
Gregor Marshall |
4 Sep 2007, 08:59 (Ref:2003350) | #25 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Group A Toyota Corolla History (merged) | terryobeirne | Motorsport History | 360 | 6 Aug 2015 12:47 |
Fans Against Racing Toyotas | FIRE | NASCAR & Stock Car Racing | 32 | 23 Feb 2007 15:05 |
What happened to the Toyotas? | beau1 | Formula One | 20 | 3 Nov 2006 02:38 |
Toyotas spends more money | neilap | Formula One | 80 | 17 Jul 2003 17:04 |
FIA bans WRC/GpA cars from regional rally championships (updated) | racer69 | Rallying & Rallycross | 12 | 22 Aug 2002 13:02 |