Bring back Procar

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by Stargazer7

Just give them a fair money prize and those hungry-for-money *******s will drive like crazy to win it.....

Unlikely to make any difference to these guys, they will either race or not, don't think money will come into it.

[johnny yuma]

ABOUT NOON on day of GP Australian round,Celebrity Race is a good laugh. This year they were in BMWs,our Foreign Minister ran midfield competently,others were the usual suspects,footballers,talk show hosts etc. Best remembered is TONI COLLETTE some years back in Commodores, she ran amok,not without talent though.

[davyboy]

How about this to help get buy in from the teams and sponsors. Each of the procars would be decked out in the livery of the driver's F1 machine. If that were to happen, maybe some form of 'neutral' high-powered carbon/space-framed sports car could be built by Dallara or someone and bodied in something sexy, to avoid having a Porsche GT3 with Renault decals. If this were the case, and the procar series was packaged as part of the TV coverage, the sponsors would get greater exposure and the teams could make more revenue. For example, if Albers did well in the procar race, OzJet would be getting a lot more TV time than the milliseconds as his Minardi was being passed as a backmarker in the GP itself.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Again, although I love the idea, there's not much in it for the top teams. They cannot gain much, but have to potential to lose a lot. eg, if Kimi was persistently beaten by Doornbos or somebody, its not going to do a lot for McLaren or Kimi. I think it would need to be seperated from F1 and run as a different entity, under the guise 'just for fun'. Maybe you wouldn't even inform the spectators who was in which car until after the race!

[davyboy]

I think its highly likely that Kimi, Alonso and Schumacher would be filling the top spots regularly, but maybe not by such huge margins. Out of the 9 races in 1979, Niki Lauda won 3, Nelson Piquet 2 and Jacques Laffitte and Elio deAngelis 1 each. They were all pretty hot back then in F1 around then too, so it probably wasn't a huge surprise. The big revelation was sportscar vanguard Hans Stuck who took 2 wins also. He was a journeyman in F1 but proved what he could do behind the wheel of a Rothmans 956 not long afterwards.

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Yes it would be good, but I wouldn't want it to get in the way of the real race that weekend.

The "real race"?? Do you mean the GP2???

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mystery

The "real race"?? Do you mean the GP2???

Good one!!!

[Adam43]

Quite, (almost) identical quick cars. Except people don't see that they call for Procar. Shame really - we have what they want out there. Whether that be GP2, WTCC, or if you need "stars" RoC or GP Masters (etc).

[AllonFS]

Sadly I can never see Bernie allowing a Procar type series back. Would he really want F1 drivers in a close exciting series with lots of action - then follow this with an 'real' F1 race a few hours later. I know this has been a better year for F1, but I think a Procar series could provide a little too much excitement in comparison to some F1 races.

[Adam43]

The so evil Bernie was instrumental in setting up the original M1 Procar.

If you crave the excitement of a non-F1 race there is already plenty to chose from. Why want Procar when we already have WTCC?

[AllonFS]

You are right of course about Bernie setting up the original. However Bernie wasn't always the mad meglomaniac he is now. In the early days he did a lot of good, but he is a prime example of 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

As for why I would want another series; well I am a race fan and I would love to see the best drivers in the world competing for the hell of it in identical cars.

[chunterer]

Um, perhaps you might have added 'allegedly' to those strong remarks Allon!

The concept is certainly worth starting up again but as you referrd to in your last but one post, it may be a bit too exciting compared to the main event.

When Procar began in '79 or whenever and into 1980 the GP's were more open and unpredictable - with action overtaking and a winner who you would be hard pressed to predict before the race began.

F1 would need to return fullyto that kind of level i venture for peole not to watch a racing celeb event and then not sneer at the GP later that day because it's a procession or whatever.

I can see it now at an unspecified Middle Eastern GP....

'Procar' event:
Big shunt at start of race as Montoya, Maldonado and Rosberg go toe to toe but only one of them comes out the other side. 3 car lead scrap for entirety between Hamilton, Schumacher and Speed and then poleman Rosberg, who recovers from that early shunt, zips up on the 3 car scrap and nicks it at the end. Marvellous.

Compared to GP:

Poleman clears off into distance until his engine which revs to a record 30000rpm grenades itself promoting 2nd place car half a lap behind upto the win... Only drive of note is Rossi, who tips the car on 2 wheels around a hairpin and then balances it beautifully like that along the following straight.

Touch exagerrated perhaps but you get my drift...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by AllonFS

You are right of course about Bernie setting up the original. However Bernie wasn't always the mad meglomaniac he is now. In the early days he did a lot of good, but he is a prime example of 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

Equally power corrupts people's perception of someone and absolute power corrupts people's perception of someone absolutely.

Bernie's influence isn't once what it was IMHO - and that is the problem. Still it is Bernie's fault. Everyone else is fallening over themselves to do this yet all he does is, er, wait a minute, I think we all may be getting ahead of ourselves here

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chunterer

'Procar' event:
Big shunt at start of race as Montoya, Maldonado and Rosberg go toe to toe but only one of them comes out the other side. 3 car lead scrap for entirety between Hamilton, Schumacher and Speed and then poleman Rosberg, who recovers from that early shunt, zips up on the 3 car scrap and nicks it at the end. Marvellous.

Fantasy world.

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Quite, (almost) identical quick cars. Except people don't see that they call for Procar. Shame really - we have what they want out there. Whether that be GP2, WTCC, or if you need "stars" RoC or GP Masters (etc).

You're not wrong Adam. We do have a lot to watch now, and despite my occasional moans about F1 I am probably watching a lot more motor racing than I ever used to - it's just more likely to not be F1. I think the point some people are making is that we'd love to see the best drivers in the world being open to challenge against others in equal machinery and as you rightly say RoC or perhaps JPM's (?) karting event offer that kind of thing.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Mystery

I think the point some people are making is that we'd love to see the best drivers in the world being open to challenge against others in equal machinery and as you rightly say RoC or perhaps JPM's (?) karting event offer that kind of thing.

They do, but those events are not taken seriously in any way, shape or form. They're sort of end of term 'fun events' that raise money for charity etc...

Procar the first time round was deadly serious and the cars were run by professional teams like Ron Dennis' Project 4 [later to morph into what we now know as McLaren], Osella [a former F1 team for many years] and the BMW factory. The drivers took it seriously too.

If it was run well, over a full championship, one round for every GP, it would definitely ignite the competitive spark in the F1 pilots and I'm sure would not be treated lightly.

[davyboy]

Just an interesting snippit to this in this weeks Autosport. They've got a couple of photos of the stillborn Alfa 164 silhouette and some text about it. Apart from the typo [should read 1988 and not 1998], I hadn't realized that the car had next to no downforce and clocked 200mph at the end of the Monza straight ! Imagine what that would be like, wouldn't it whet your appetite even more for a Procar of today... one without little or no downforce, with an emphasis on slipstreaming and mechanical grip. We'd see some real racing over a GP weekend... and a chance for the young guns to put one over the others.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by davyboy

If Bernie tells them to do it, they will.

If the insurance companies tell them not too, they won't

[ZXRobert]

This sounds like a fantastic idea, which is rather sad, because it means that something is missing from F1; and no one wants to admit that. Seems true, though.

Most athletes like to be "pushed", to be forced to excel, and one would hope that would be the response from all drivers in a series like this. For sure, the series backmarker would adopt an "I'll show you!" attitude, and one would hope that the F1 darling would adopt a, "No, I'll show YOU!!" type of response.

Alas, I fear that instead, you'd just see upper-tier drivers whining about what a "waste of time/resources" it all would be, instead of wanting to show their mettle.

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by Mr V

If the insurance companies tell them not too, they won't

Aint' that the truth.

[duke_toaster]

On the "Renault drivers in Porsche" problem, here's an idea - make it a spec car, and just decal it to look like that company. So the Honda would look like a Civic, the BMW would be a 3 series and Ferrari ... erm ... I dunno.

Like NASCAR with the COT and V8STAR (OK, that had different body shells).

[Matt]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Just an interesting snippit to this in this weeks Autosport. They've got a couple of photos of the stillborn Alfa 164 silhouette and some text about it. Apart from the typo [should read 1988 and not 1998], I hadn't realized that the car had next to no downforce and clocked 200mph at the end of the Monza straight ! Imagine what that would be like, wouldn't it whet your appetite even more for a Procar of today... one without little or no downforce, with an emphasis on slipstreaming and mechanical grip. We'd see some real racing over a GP weekend... and a chance for the young guns to put one over the others.

You mean this 164?

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Matt

You mean this 164?

Thats the one. It would have made for a great championship although I have my doubts as to how serious the attempt to launch the championship given that Alfa Romeo was the only manufacturer to ever publically state their support for the championship and their car was made by Brabham, which at the time was owned by one Bernie Ecclestone.