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30 Jul 2004, 17:07 (Ref:1052143) | #1 | ||||
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A True Original
From Speedtv.com... http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/12235/
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Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
30 Jul 2004, 18:04 (Ref:1052161) | #2 | ||
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Pullleeeeze.....
Legendary figure? Give me a break..... Sure...he can drive....but he is no legend.... Whiner??? YES... Legendary Figure.....c'mon.... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
30 Jul 2004, 18:30 (Ref:1052169) | #3 | ||
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Legendary = Gordo Johncock
Legendary = AJ Foyt Legendary = Mario Andretti Legendary = Michael Andretti (all-time win/laps lead leader in the former CART Series and has led double the laps of second place-holder P Tracy. Legendary = Rick Mears PT Interesting? Entertaining? Yes! Legendary? Not quite. |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
30 Jul 2004, 18:45 (Ref:1052171) | #4 | |||
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30 Jul 2004, 18:46 (Ref:1052172) | #5 | |||
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30 Jul 2004, 19:00 (Ref:1052177) | #6 | ||
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And the typical responses from the usual people
Paul Tracy has been a stalwart of ChampCar/CART/OWRS for the best part of a decade now and his dedication to the cause is plain to see. Not always the most popular guy on track with teams, drivers or fans, there is no doubt that this guy is always 100% committed to winning and will never give up. I like him for the fact that he's always out-spoken and never afraid to share an opinion. No matter what some people say, Paul Tracy IS a race winner, Paul Tracy IS a champion and Paul Tracy DOES stand alongside some of the so-called legendary figures mentioned above. |
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Sunderland Til I Die! |
30 Jul 2004, 19:50 (Ref:1052202) | #7 | ||
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Agreed. I won't argue whether he's better or worse than any other legendary driver, but IMO he's still worthy to be spoken of in the same category.
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"You will never know the feeling of a driver when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings that cannot be understood." - Ayrton Senna |
30 Jul 2004, 20:02 (Ref:1052212) | #8 | ||
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30 Jul 2004, 20:08 (Ref:1052216) | #9 | ||
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It is so nice to be described as "typical" and "usual" rather than something harsh, thanks!
Sometimes I forget that this is a discussion forum where an opposing opinion is viewed as such rather than some sort of attack. I never said PT is a bad driver/person. Nor did I say his accomplishments were not significant, just that to me he is not a legend. f1manoz & jjspierx, you are certainly entitled to consider PT as a legend - that is a perfectly valid opinion based on your standards of evaluation. I suppose the Forum would be much more fun if a statement is posted and we all just said: "Yes! I agree!" |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
30 Jul 2004, 20:26 (Ref:1052242) | #10 | ||||
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From the article......
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Last edited by Dov; 30 Jul 2004 at 20:34. |
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Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
30 Jul 2004, 20:43 (Ref:1052268) | #11 | ||
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"I belong off the walls I belong out of the way. As long as papa's checks don't bounce I can race in Champcar today." - JohnSSC |
30 Jul 2004, 21:11 (Ref:1052307) | #12 | ||
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Maybe if Eddie won a championship and over twenty five races it would. Btw, F1 is so boring now without Eddie Irvine and JV. All they have is 18-20 robots racing over there!
Last edited by Dov; 30 Jul 2004 at 21:15. |
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Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
30 Jul 2004, 21:17 (Ref:1052317) | #13 | ||
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For the record, I consider Jacques being more important than Paul, and I don't consider Jacques to be a legend. He's a great, and he is one of the four to have won both F1 and CART. And if I don't consider him a legend, then Paul isn't a legend, in my humble opinion.
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"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
30 Jul 2004, 21:38 (Ref:1052337) | #14 | ||
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Maybe they confused the world "legendary" with "loyalty!"
(You know, as a sectance, it almost works!) But when he's on it, he's unbeatable, at the start of last year I was very worried he was going to dominate the championship in a manner never seen before (in Champcar, anyway). Fortunatly for us, the fans, that didn't happen, but still, he won the title and also the (morally) Indy 500 too, not an unimpressive amount of trophies in his cabinet! But I think what rates with many fans, such as myself, is how he stuck by the series. It opened a lot of people's eyes to him who perhaps weren't his fans before. It may be what he's remembered most for when he's done too, we'll see! |
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We need to win like you need to breathe.... |
30 Jul 2004, 22:13 (Ref:1052359) | #15 | ||
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Legend is a strong word to throw around. To be truly a legend I think you need to be really special. PT is a great CART driver but not a legend. Mario Andretti is legendary as he was a multiple discipline champion. Michael while great in CART was terrible in F1 and never won the Indy 500. He may have lead the most laps but he still lost them all. Not a legend.
Jacques Villeneuve has a chance to become a legend, CART champ, F1 Champ, Indy 500 champ; all he needs now is to become is a 24hrs Lemans Champ. The only current active driver who I can think of being considered legendary is Michael Schumacher. Being great is one thing, but being a legend is something completely different. |
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A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" |
30 Jul 2004, 22:17 (Ref:1052361) | #16 | |||
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Paul Tracy will be legendary the way Paul Bunyan is legendary, that is people will be talking about his exploits and adventures long after people have forgotten who Justin Wilson or even Bruno even are. It is not statistics we are talking here -- it is exploits . That's what makes a legend. Wyatt Earp is a legend; John Dillinger is a legend; Katayama is a legend ... and Paul Tracy is a legend. Michael Andretti is only a legend in F1, where his 10 race tryout will be remembered long after many more successful drivers have passed into the record books and out of memory. |
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"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
31 Jul 2004, 04:39 (Ref:1052519) | #17 | ||
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Paul Tracy is a "legend" in the minds of the fan.
Joe DiMaggio is not a legend in my mother's mind, but he is in mine. Take a look at Paul's stats. Take a look at Paul's longetivity. Take a look at Paul's storylines. Ten years from now, more fans will remember Paul Tracy's name than Cristiano daMatta, Sebastien Bourdais, or (dare I say it?) Jimmy Vasser's. He achieved this without a championship, and (without) a sip of milk. |
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Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
31 Jul 2004, 05:34 (Ref:1052527) | #18 | |
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2002 Indy 500 Champion, CART Champion, winner of many races, a legend already if not one in the making.
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Wolverines! |
31 Jul 2004, 08:30 (Ref:1052572) | #19 | |||
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He's been a stalwart in the series. And THE #1 Rah Rah "I love CART / Champ Car vocal "damn the torpedoes" supporter. I couldn't think of a more fitting spokesperson. If he plants his foot in his mouth every once in awile, so what? WHO can forget when he donned that mask in Vancouver during the SARS scare last year?? Classic PT. Remember that pose in Miami 2002 after he won?? Priceless. Thanks Paul. |
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"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver! |
31 Jul 2004, 09:09 (Ref:1052585) | #20 | |
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Agreed enemy-ace. IMO if you want to be legitimately considered (as in non-fanboys having the same opinion) as a legend of a (category of a) sport, you have to be at least one of the top ten ever.
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"I belong off the walls I belong out of the way. As long as papa's checks don't bounce I can race in Champcar today." - JohnSSC |
31 Jul 2004, 09:12 (Ref:1052587) | #21 | |||
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"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver! |
31 Jul 2004, 09:36 (Ref:1052600) | #22 | |
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A F1 driver with very similar stats to Tracy was Nelson Piquet. Great driver? Yes, but outside of fanboys hardly anyone would consider him a legend.
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"I belong off the walls I belong out of the way. As long as papa's checks don't bounce I can race in Champcar today." - JohnSSC |
31 Jul 2004, 09:41 (Ref:1052604) | #23 | ||
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We are not talking about F1. We are talking about Champ Cars. And IMO Paul Tracy qualifies. He's been a VERY outspoken PRO-Champ Car spokesperson when just about every single other driver was afraid to say "I Love Champ Cars, and I'm sticking Around!!" And to top it off, he's a great driver.
Last edited by Mags; 31 Jul 2004 at 09:42. |
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"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver! |
31 Jul 2004, 10:13 (Ref:1052612) | #24 | |
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Good old switch the topic when stats no longer support the argument.
Jimmy Vasser has been able to support Champ Cars even while remaining a class act. And to top it off he is also a great driver. Just like Tracy though he simply hasn't done enough to attain legend status. Legends in this forum maybe. |
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"I belong off the walls I belong out of the way. As long as papa's checks don't bounce I can race in Champcar today." - JohnSSC |
31 Jul 2004, 11:32 (Ref:1052638) | #25 | |||
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"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley |
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