Are You Happy With Your Grade?

[Mark Mitchell]

Over the last 3 or 4 years as an Observer, I have noticed the reduction in the number of grading cards put forward to be considered for signatures.

At a recent meeting I had two Course Marshals on post with me who both declined to submit their grading cards, stating that they were happy with being "Green Badges".

Similarly, where are all the Trainee Observers?
I have not yet been on post with one or have I seen any on the list of volunteers for events!

As we Observers grow older and retire, who will fill our boots?

This seems to be particularly at Oulton Park but I wondered if this has been noticed by other Observers elsewhere?

I make no bones about wanting to succeed in my Marshalling "Career" and although I am now an Examining Observer, I want, eventually to move upwards to become a senior official.

It's not a power thing - but if you get a chance to move up then why not grab it with both hands?

[mark_l]

I think part of the problem is again caused by the lawyers.

People just want to marshal and go home at the end of the last race, not sit around in race control till the late hours waiting for a stewards enquiry to hear them.

As for Observers/Senior Officials the problem might be the thought of having to stand up in court and justifying what you did/ didn't do during an incident. We are volunteers after all, if we wanted our day in court we would be policemen or lawyers.

[Mark Mitchell]

Standing up in court or a Coroners Court is not limited to just Observers & Senior Officials - it could be required of anyone (Including non-officials) attending a meeting!

Perhaps I've been lucky in my 11 or so years as a Marshal but I've not yet had to sit around waiting to be called by the Stewards - I know there's a first time for everything though!

I hear what you're saying Mark but if all marshals think like that then eventually there won't be any!!

[Don Truman]

Unless the "thing" happens on the last race most enquiries take place almost immediately so that observers etc are not kept hanging about.
Surely marshals should be prepared to put up with a small amount of buggering about to help keep a bit of discipline in the sport.
Don Truman

[Mark Mitchell]

Quiet!

[Mark Mitchell]

Oops!

I meant QUITE!

[Alan Green]

Mark,
As I'm grading for Observer at the moment, I find part of the problem is getting someone to sign the card. As we all know, getting two observers on a post at some circuits is a once-a-season occurance, and unless it's a meeting for club where you know the chief marshal well enough to see them at the end of the day to get your card signed it's tough. Even then, they haven't seen what you've done during the day, or seen how you've dealt with an incident, or given your briefing, so unless you've sent in a few reports you might not get a signature anyway.

As for trainee observers not showing on manning lists, it's probaly because most are volunteered as flag marshals, and upgraded when we're running short.

From my perspective, anyway!

Al.

[JLD]

The problem of getting your card signed isn't just at Observer level either.
I'm fairly new to all this, but have already been at a couple of meetings where there seemed to be no-one willing to sign a card. Without signatures, how are we going to get beyond the trainee stage.

[Pete Howarth]

Originally posted by JLD
The problem of getting your card signed isn't just at Observer level either.
I'm fairly new to all this, but have already been at a couple of meetings where there seemed to be no-one willing to sign a card. Without signatures, how are we going to get beyond the trainee stage.

Without trying to be negative, signatures are to be earned, when I started it took me 2 years to upgrade from novice to course marshal. I think I learnt more by not upgrading quickly as the more experienced marshals showed me more as a novice, instead of being graded and expected to know it.

This year I've had more trainee grading cards handed to me thcompared to last few years, but still very few upgrading for other grades

[Richard Sneader]

I have to say I did upgrade a while ago to Obs but am doing less and less of it as I am just not enjoying this role and still prefer to IO when I can. I did look at upgrading to X but I do not think I will bother now. I have my reasons and do not wish to put them on this site. I am looking for somthing else to do in marshalling but can't seem to get in anywhere. I did look at Rescue going on as a trainee( especially with my background) but can't seem to find a way onto a unit. Alot of it is due to becoming quit disalusioned with marshalling.
Although I am sure a few people will comment about what I have put.
RS

[Woolley]

I'm waiting to see about a flag grade (lost my card - doh) but hope to sort something soon even if I have to get extra signatures, and I've now got all my sigs to upgrade at Speed Events.

i'm not too bothered about moving on from there - I'm quite happy to do I/O when requested, but don't want to be in the position of always being one. Sometimes it's nice just to be a bod.

[Paul Newns]

The original question was "Are you happy with your grade?". My answer is "Yes". I enjoy flagging, it'sthe best job on the circuit in my opinion. I'm also graded as I.O. and when I occasionally act in that role I enjoy that too. When I'm asked to act as observer I'm happy to do so but if I sit back and look at what gets me out of bed at 5 in the morning to drive 100 odd miles it's flagging. Even the most boring race can be interesting from a flaging point of view. So I'm sorry Mark, I wont be looking to upgrade, I;m happy doing what I do now.

[Micky.H]

I'm happy as a Blue/Black. As for upgrading to observer, I feel that I lack the experience to do the role justice. Although my first meeting was Easter 1993, I still can't get the numbers all the time, but i'm allright if its a red car overtaking a yellow car!!!!

[Nighthawk]

Am I happy with my grade...YES...But am wanting to go all the way up to observer.
I need flag grading first and this is were i find myself hitting a brick wall not many on post want a flag trainee.
Also i find many an observer not interested in helping up and coming guys.they seem to have a NFI attitude.And this i find includes some chief marshalls.
Some of the older guys who have stayed as incident marshalls are just out to stab you in the back and not interested in passing on there wealth of knowledge.

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Alan Green
Mark,
As I'm grading for Observer at the moment, I find part of the problem is getting someone to sign the card. As we all know, getting two observers on a post at some circuits is a once-a-season occurance, and unless it's a meeting for club where you know the chief marshal well enough to see them at the end of the day to get your card signed it's tough. Even then, they haven't seen what you've done during the day, or seen how you've dealt with an incident, or given your briefing, so unless you've sent in a few reports you might not get a signature anyway.

As for trainee observers not showing on manning lists, it's probaly because most are volunteered as flag marshals, and upgraded when we're running short.

From my perspective, anyway!

Al.

Al, This may be an exercise in teaching granny to suck eggs, but just in case there are those out there who don't know .....

If you have done something that warrants an upgrading signature (dealt with a major incident or similar) and you have no X on your post, provided you have done a good job I am sure that the Clerk of the Course would be only too pleased to sign your grading card.

[Pete Howarth]

Originally posted by Sheila M
Al, This may be an exercise in teaching granny to suck eggs, but just in case there are those out there who don't know .....

If you have done something that warrants an upgrading signature (dealt with a major incident or similar) and you have no X on your post, provided you have done a good job I am sure that the Clerk of the Course would be only too pleased to sign your grading card.

I have seen marshals from a post without an Exm Observer approach an adjacent post to obtain a signature, and have had requests from race control for grading signatures for an adjacent post.
I have no problems with this provided they are in my sight and have warranted a signature.

[Nighthawk]

Yes I find all your comments are correct never had a problem with obtaining a signature.
But my other comments are all to true

[Tango n Crash]

I tend to accept my lot. No BlackX no signature, but sometimes this can be frustrating. I know others that chase every sig. going, but this can be equally inconsistent. There should be a more 'formal' method and not simply down to the most energetic of signature chasers!

[Chigley]

I need flag grading first and this is were i find myself hitting a brick wall not many on post want a flag trainee.

Oh dear Nighthawk where have you been when you were needed. These days flaggies think all their birthdays have come as one if there's two of you on post. As long as the I/O / senior incident isn't dangerously short of numbers I'll always welcome a helping hand.
Its a tad disconcerting when you are doing the Wimbledon whiplash with your neck and something goes bang, big style behind you. It also gives you a better chance to watch the race than trying to see all and watching nowt.
Then you get to single handed flag and observer you really wish for a potential trainee to ask, do you need a hand?? I'd have your hand, arm and legs before you change your mind.

[Chigley]

I am also completely happy with my grade and also believe flagging gives the greatest satisfaction through total involvement with the racing. A certain Chief Observer is trying to recruit me as Obs but I feel I'm not experienced enough and also have trouble with numbers as against colours. I'll willing act as Obs when required but I definately prefer flags. Give me time and who knows.

[JLD]

Originally posted by Pete Howarth
Without trying to be negative, signatures are to be earned, when I started it took me 2 years to upgrade from novice to course marshal. I think I learnt more by not upgrading quickly as the more experienced marshals showed me more as a novice, instead of being graded and expected to know it.

This year I've had more trainee grading cards handed to me thcompared to last few years, but still very few upgrading for other grades

The meetings to which I refered, were not meetings where I was wanting a signature myself. A fellow trainee on the same post was bitterly complaining about this. In general I have found other marshals to be most helpful, however I have seen marshals from nearby posts turned away when a signature was requested (the observer in question could not be fully sure as to the involvement of said marshal).

Maybe there should be more said to trainees about grading / upgrading at training sessions etc?

[Micky.H]

One of the problems in obtaining signatures as a trainee - is trying to find out if your Observer is an X.

It OK when the observer has his badge on display, but if your learning the ropes you do not feel comfortable asking every time you go on post with someone new 'are you an X?'.

Should the observer ask if anyones upgrading, or should it be down to the person after the upgrade?

Just a cautionary note to those 'signature chasers', a grading badge does not mean experience, but those around you will expect you to be experienced, i.e a red badge that has rushed through chasing signatures will find they have a trainee with them and when it goes 't*ts up' you as the red badge would be expected to deal with it, experience or not!!.

[wiggles]

It took me almost two years to upgrade from trainee to course, and to be perfectly honest whether it took 10 meetings or 100 I wouldn't have been upset. The way I see it is that it is better to take your time over upgrading and not force the issue. If I had done it in the shortest possible time then there is no doubt I my mind that I would have been a pretty sub-standard course marshal (although we're all still learning, right kids?).

Moving on to Incident is something that I will look to do, but I'll be opportunistic about it. If I happen to be on a post with a Black X and we have a large-ish inccident then I'll probably ask.

Personally this approach works well for me. If there are any trainees out there that are finding it difficult to obtain signitures you'll probably find that most observers will be more interested in your amount of trackside time and inccidents attended rather than the fact you are a trainee. From this they'll make a judgement as to your ability from your experience rather than the fact you are a 'trainee'.

[flying muppet]

Originally posted by Alan Green
[B]Mark,
As I'm grading for Observer at the moment, I find part of the problem is getting someone to sign the card. As we all know, getting two observers on a post at some circuits is a once-a-season occurance /B]

Al,

Try coming to Oulton Park for a clubbie on the Fosters cct - we usually manage to get 2 obs on 50% of the posts, and about 75% of our observers are X graded now.

[Peter Harding]

Re upgrading to Obs: It is likely (even desirable) that some of the signatures come from CoC's as they are the ones who can judge your reports and communications.

Also, if you tell the Chief Marshal a week or so before the meeting what you want re grading, hopefully he can assign you appropriately to make sure that, if you warrent the signature, their is someone their who can give it.

On the main subject of the thread, I believe everyone should get the grade that allows them to do what they enjoy and not chase grades for the sake of it. That said we do need people to fill the holes left by us old 'ens.